Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Discuss the Visa & MasterCard payment networks as well as cards that operate through them.
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yfan
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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby yfan » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:17 pm

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:I saw that earlier and thought it might (plausibly) be an out of date copy lingering on the Chase website, but my IHG and Hyatt cards (both opened in 2015) have the same 11/1/13 date on their benefits guides. Since those are still valid, it's very reasonable that Freedom's 11/1/13 edition is still valid.

Actually it seems that I was incorrect and that the Freedom does offer Price Protection. The CCF blog said that although it's not on their website anymore, a call confirmed it.

A couple years ago Chase announced they added the price protection to their Freedom card. Unfortunately I have been unable to find the details on their website but Chase Protection Services (1-877-631-0920) was able to confirm that this benefit is included on both the Visa and MasterCard versions of the Chase Freedom card.

That's one for Chase. and zero for yfan. :beat:


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CarefulBuilder14
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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:47 pm

Freedom cats look good to me! Gas doesn't do much, but the other three are useful.
Wallet: Prestige CSP SchwabPlat Freedom It Hyatt SallieMae AAPlat
SD: Arrival BrooksBros BCE ED IHG
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

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Vattené
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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby Vattené » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:57 pm

I must disagree about everyone having a gas or grocery card! That may be true among credit card enthusiasts, but we're a minority. I don't think that is true of the general population. MAYBE having any type of rewards card at all is typical. Gas and groceries are boring, but they're major categories for a lot of people, so they have mass appeal (while the caps make sure Chase and Discover don't have to pay out too much).

I completely agree with your general frustration, though. When I was applying in early 2014, Discover beat out Chase by a hair for me. That was before double cash back for a year (which can amount to a huge bonus if you're not just getting the card to use for category spending) and when Chase still had the 10% perk. What did it for me then was Discover's categories being more broad than Chase's at the time (IIRC I compared Discover's online shopping to Chase's Amazon), and it has only gotten worse sense then. Now, of course it still varies from person to person but I think Discover should be light years ahead of Chase for most people. CSP pairing is a major caveat: it is a great benefit, but only to people that would get a CSP anyway.

Don't forget about the MAJOR drawback that's always listed of Discover not being as widely accepted. That irritates me: while technically true IMO it shouldn't be a huge concern. I made it a long time of using Discover exclusively for everything I could and acceptance was not an issue at all. If reports of Discover's lousy acceptance internationally are true, I could see that giving travelers more pause. I'm glad I went with Discover when I did - especially now that I'll get a year of double cash back!
-Vattené
FICO-8:
EX - 809 (11/16) | TU - 803 (11/16)
Primary Cards:
American Express EveryDay - $20,000 (10/14)
Discover it - $23,000 (2/14)
AU on Barclay Sallie Mae - $10,000 (8/15)
plus several store accounts of varying usefulness now

kdm31091
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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby kdm31091 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:10 pm

Vattené wrote:I must disagree about everyone having a gas or grocery card! That may be true among credit card enthusiasts, but we're a minority. I don't think that is true of the general population. MAYBE having any type of rewards card at all is typical. Gas and groceries are boring, but they're major categories for a lot of people, so they have mass appeal (while the caps make sure Chase and Discover don't have to pay out too much).

I completely agree with your general frustration, though. When I was applying in early 2014, Discover beat out Chase by a hair for me. That was before double cash back for a year (which can amount to a huge bonus if you're not just getting the card to use for category spending) and when Chase still had the 10% perk. What did it for me then was Discover's categories being more broad than Chase's at the time (IIRC I compared Discover's online shopping to Chase's Amazon), and it has only gotten worse sense then. Now, of course it still varies from person to person but I think Discover should be light years ahead of Chase for most people. CSP pairing is a major caveat: it is a great benefit, but only to people that would get a CSP anyway.

Don't forget about the MAJOR drawback that's always listed of Discover not being as widely accepted. That irritates me: while technically true IMO it shouldn't be a huge concern. I made it a long time of using Discover exclusively for everything I could and acceptance was not an issue at all. If reports of Discover's lousy acceptance internationally are true, I could see that giving travelers more pause. I'm glad I went with Discover when I did - especially now that I'll get a year of double cash back!


Well, by "everyone" having a grocery/gas card I basically mean "everyone who's interested in this stuff". I think the CSP angle is overhyped and makes more people apply for CSP than really need to (or at least did before the 5 in 24 rule came about). Not that it doesn't benefit some, but it certainly doesn't benefit everyone as is basically implied most of the time.

I agree about Discover acceptance usually being a nonissue. I have had zero occasions where I wanted to use it and couldn't.

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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby savedbythebell » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:41 am

because

(1) often there is a referral reward that comes with freedom and bloggers love free money. more importantly, chase might be paying them on top.

(2) often the bloggers are into manufacturing points, maximizing points, etc and when you do that, you easily value UR points higher than cashback on discover. 1 ultimate reward point is at its lowest 1 cent i.e. it matches discover. Often, 1 UR point = 2-3 cent. Sometimes you can even get 1 UR = 5-6 cent. You can eventually combine freedom with Ink Plus or CSP and get good value. These points never expire so you could save them for whenever you feel like getting the card.

(3) adding onto (2) Freedom + Ink Cash + CSP is a killer combo. This isn't going to be for everyone but still there is a huge benefit here should someone choose to go this route.

(4) There is this whole notion of "discover isn't accepted everywhere". Granted you can use discover almost anywhere in america but still there is that notion. You're not going to use either of those cards for foreign transition.

(5) You can get Visa Signature benefits, which sometimes lead to discounts and such.

(6) Chase is a physical bank. Granted, for vast majority online support is enough but there might be small group of people that may prefer to get help at a bank when needed.

(7) I'm pretty sure both cards provide protection against price drops. I'm not 100% sure but the claim you can make with both card is identical.

(8) in my experience, discover often has better % off on online portal.


Both cards compliment each other very well and I used to view them identical until I thought about redeeming UR points for more than 1 cent value.

yfan
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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby yfan » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:08 am

savedbythebell wrote:(2) often the bloggers are into manufacturing points, maximizing points, etc and when you do that, you easily value UR points higher than cashback on discover. 1 ultimate reward point is at its lowest 1 cent i.e. it matches discover. Often, 1 UR point = 2-3 cent. Sometimes you can even get 1 UR = 5-6 cent. You can eventually combine freedom with Ink Plus or CSP and get good value. These points never expire so you could save them for whenever you feel like getting the card.

All cpp calculations necessarily ignore alternatives and cash sales. If you get a flight from New York to London for 50,000 BA points, for example, and the same ticket, if paid for in cash would cost you $1500, the claim is that that's a point value of 3 cents per point. But that assumes that one's travel plan is completely inflexible - that they couldn't fly a different airline or on a different set of dates or even to a different destination and utilize a big cash sale on an alternate airline/destination/dates. That is not how most people plan vacations, and yet cpp calculations cannot take into account those alternatives to determine whether one really is getting a 3 cpp valuation.

(4) There is this whole notion of "discover isn't accepted everywhere". Granted you can use discover almost anywhere in america but still there is that notion. You're not going to use either of those cards for foreign transition.

Of course I would. And I have. Discover card has no FTF, and I have used it in Europe quite successfully. People get bogged down because retailers don't recognize it. But if you just stick it into the chip card reader, 95% of the time it will work. Retailers take it, the staff just doesn't know they do. With its agreements with JCB and ChinaPay, Discover is *the* most accepted card network in those countries, period.

(6) Chase is a physical bank. Granted, for vast majority online support is enough but there might be small group of people that may prefer to get help at a bank when needed.

On the other hand, Chase ranks third in actual customer service while Discover ranks first.

kdm31091
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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby kdm31091 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:16 am

And Chase being a physical bank is not advantageous everywhere. For example, I'm in Delaware. The nearest Chase branch is over an hour away in NJ. So for all intents and purposes, there really is no Chase presence near me. I agree that at times a physical branch may be nice, but I've also never had an issue with Discover (or any lender) where I would have needed to go to a branch to fix it, so not sure how often it really is an issue.

Yfan's talk about CPP is also true. There's no doubt that points can be quite valuable if used "correctly" with certain flights. However, if you chose another airline not available to do a points transfer with, you might save more money. Or if you shift the time by an hour. Or if you go the next day. etc, etc, etc. CPP is a somewhat flawed calculation because it assumes you ONLY would be going at that exact time, on that exact airline, etc and generally, for a trip you are planning way ahead of time, you have at least some leeway on these things. I'm not discrediting points card -- they work for the people who put the effort into making them work -- but bloggers can get a little too caught up in CPP and ignore all other factors, and basically tell everyone that CSP or Amex Platinum is a great card no matter who you are. And that's just not the case.

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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby CreditCardGuru » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:13 pm

Concerning some of the comments in this thread about card ranking objectivity, we can't speak for other blog sites and their rating methodology but we want to assure our members that CreditCardForum.com does not take any commission pay outs into account when ranking cards. We state our ranking criteria in recent "Best of 2016" articles for all to see. Naturally, our opinions are not going to be universally held and we encourage open discussions and challenges based on personal experiences and opinions. For reference, below is our explanation of ranking standards for cash back cards.

"A word on our ranking standards

While some cards listed below are our advertising partners, our rankings aren’t based on that. Here’s what we did take into account:

Return on spending: What good is a cash-back card of you’re not earning enough to justify putting most of your spending on it? Some cards give a flat rate of cash back, while others boost your earnings in certain categories, so it can be tricky to compare cards based on this standard. If a card concentrates its highest rate of cash back in a category, we took into account whether those categories matched regular expenses for most families.
Redemption flexibility: Some cash-back cards are more flexible than others when it comes to redeeming. While some freeze your rewards until you’ve earned a certain amount, others will let you redeem a dollar at a time if you want to. Some cards will even allow you to redeem in real time while shopping online or at certain retailers.

Reward-boosting potential: Some cards allow you to earn more than the advertised percentage of cash back, either by giving extra cash back for shopping with partner retailers, or by allowing you to redeem in ways that make your rewards worth more. We viewed this potential to maximize and strategize as a plus in our rankings.
Sign-up bonus: A good sign-up bonus gives you a head start in the first few months of card ownership. Even a card with a higher rate of cash back may lag behind one with a generous sign-up bonus for the better part of the first year.
Other unique features: Whether it’s a free FICO score or useful apps, a card’s extras helped determine its ranking.

Note: Because we recommend that rewards-seekers don’t carry balances, we did not take APRs into account."

Thanks.

- CreditCardGuru

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CarefulBuilder14
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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:04 am

Went to a group dinner, put the $500 bill on CSP, and got cash reimbursements for others' shares.

A few of those charges can certainly soften the blow of an annual fee. :)
Wallet: Prestige CSP SchwabPlat Freedom It Hyatt SallieMae AAPlat
SD: Arrival BrooksBros BCE ED IHG
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

yfan
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Re: Why is Freedom always rated ahead of Discover?

Postby yfan » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:25 am

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:Went to a group dinner, put the $500 bill on CSP, and got cash reimbursements for others' shares.

A few of those charges can certainly soften the blow of an annual fee. :)

I am not as nice as your friends :ppp. I would have insisted putting my part of the bill on one of my cards. :cheers:



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