Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

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yfan
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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby yfan » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:03 pm

plaidington wrote:
yfan wrote:You can thank the churners and bonus chasers. No lender wants to put up with losing money up front and THEN not getting long term use from the customer.


i see what you are saying, but in this case Barclays is forcing people who don't want to churn to cancel their card!

That is always the case. Bonus chasers and churners ruin the deal for everyone else.


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CarefulBuilder14
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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:24 pm

yfan wrote:
plaidington wrote:
yfan wrote:You can thank the churners and bonus chasers. No lender wants to put up with losing money up front and THEN not getting long term use from the customer.


i see what you are saying, but in this case Barclays is forcing people who don't want to churn to cancel their card!

That is always the case. Bonus chasers and churners ruin the deal for everyone else.

1. Arrival+ only gives a bonus to first-time customers. You can chase a bonus on it, but you can't churn it.

2. The card terms really aren't changing that much. Sure, there's a $100 minimum redemption going into effect, but who actually travels that doesn't have a $100+ expense now and then? Maybe I'd be unlikely to put a another $100 travel transaction on Arrival, but I also have a lot of travel cards. It sounds like Arrival+ is your go-to primary travel card.

3. The "Chip+pseudo-PIN" functionality hasn't changed.

4. You got a $400 signup bonus on a card with an $89 AF waived the first year. That's basically five years and a few months without an AF. You're not exactly suffering if you close it after one or two years. If it was worth getting before the nerf, saying you're being "forced" to cancel the card under the upcoming, slightly inferior terms seems excessive.

5. Maybe you're a TripIt fanatic, in which case I'd have more sympathy, but you haven't mentioned it.
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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby kdm31091 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:49 am

plaidington wrote:
yfan wrote:You can thank the churners and bonus chasers. No lender wants to put up with losing money up front and THEN not getting long term use from the customer.


i see what you are saying, but in this case Barclays is forcing people who don't want to churn to cancel their card!


Not necessarily forcing them to cancel. It's just clear that Barclay's wants the arrival+ to be one's primarily card in their wallet and using everyday for every purchase (hence the new minimum redemption). I think lenders are growing tired of people obtaining cards, collecting benefits, and spending little outside of those benefits, so they are doing what they can to make it harder to reap rewards otherwise. It's nothing entirely new, but the $100 minimum is a new big step.

Note that AFAIK the new $100 threshold doesn't apply to the no-fee arrival - only the AF version. I guess their thought process is that anyone spending enough to justify the $89 fee won't have an issue meeting the threshold, and lower spenders should have the no AF version anyway.

Even the invitation only Barclay "cash forward" or whatever it's called has a $50 redemption threshold. Barclay's wants to see usage on their cards and not just usage where it is the most beneficial to the consumer (i.e. bonus spend). We can debate whether that's right or wrong, but at the end of the day, they're a business and they want to make money.

As far as churning, it's pretty obvious that many policy changes have been due to churners: Amex once in a lifetime bonus, Citi only once every 18 months, Chase won't approve you unless you have a very low amount of new accounts etc...so again, whether churning is right or wrong, the banks are certainly saying how they feel about it. Barclay's hasn't been a big churning issuer for awhile because generally they don't approve people very easily if they have a lot of inquiries/new accounts.

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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby yfan » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:30 am

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:2. The card terms really aren't changing that much. Sure, there's a $100 minimum redemption going into effect, but who actually travels that doesn't have a $100+ expense now and then?

Sure, but that's not really the point. Maybe one would like to use a different travel card for better benefits elsewhere, and only pay for uber/cab rides and transit through the Arrival+. Maybe someone wants to make a small partial redemption. It's certainly reasonable to argue that the $100 minimum is minor as far as nerfs go, but it does keep people waiting longer and thus a nerf nonetheless.

I don't have the Arrival+ though, so I'm speaking hypothetically here.

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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby plaidington » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:53 pm

For me the $100 minimum is a hassle... with the $25 minimum you could use your miles to pay the AF. Now according to their CSR - you will not longer be able to do that. I can understand changing a few things on the card, but they are changing a lot of things that negatively impact loyal customers. It sucks.
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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby Vermonster » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:03 pm

plaidington wrote:For me the $100 minimum is a hassle... with the $25 minimum you could use your miles to pay the AF. Now according to their CSR - you will not longer be able to do that. I can understand changing a few things on the card, but they are changing a lot of things that negatively impact loyal customers. It sucks.


Why would you want to waste reward dollars on an AF? Unless I'm missing something, rewards are better used when saved and spent on large travel.
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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby Tubpbs » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:25 pm

Vermonster wrote:
plaidington wrote:For me the $100 minimum is a hassle... with the $25 minimum you could use your miles to pay the AF. Now according to their CSR - you will not longer be able to do that. I can understand changing a few things on the card, but they are changing a lot of things that negatively impact loyal customers. It sucks.


Why would you want to waste reward dollars on an AF? Unless I'm missing something, rewards are better used when saved and spent on large travel.



I don't think the Arrival+ functions that way (don't have it so don't know) but it seems like you get cash back but can only use that to offset travel purchases that you make with the card itself. I assume you have to buy the stuff first? No idea. I may be wrong.
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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby Vattené » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:37 pm

I completely understand Barclay wanting to do something about bonus hunting but I would think that, among potential customers that don't yet have the card, these actions make it MORE prone to bonus hunting, not less. Just speaking for myself - but I see a card with a sweet $400 bonus, no first-year AF, and poor long-term value. I'd be open to getting a new card for $400 and ditching it before the first AF came due. Cutting the mile bonus from 10% to 5% is disappointing, but 5% is a still a little perk that won't amount to much real value. And a high $100 minimum redemption threshold just means there are tons of better options.

I admire the Citi Double Cash for appealing to the non-bonus-hunters: no introductory bonus at all but great long-term value. If I knew the card wouldn't ever change I'd be using it, but we all know ANY card can be put on the chopping block at any time.

The industry invites this on itself. I don't look down on bonus hunters at all. I'll gladly be one myself as soon as I see something that entices me. It's not my fault card companies routinely nerf products once they've been on the market for a while, and offer introductory bonuses on new products designed to encourage people to switch over.
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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby kdm31091 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:54 pm

Vattené wrote:I completely understand Barclay wanting to do something about bonus hunting but I would think that, among potential customers that don't yet have the card, these actions make it MORE prone to bonus hunting, not less. Just speaking for myself - but I see a card with a sweet $400 bonus, no first-year AF, and poor long-term value. I'd be open to getting a new card for $400 and ditching it before the first AF came due. Cutting the mile bonus from 10% to 5% is disappointing, but 5% is a still a little perk that won't amount to much real value. And a high $100 minimum redemption threshold just means there are tons of better options.

I admire the Citi Double Cash for appealing to the non-bonus-hunters: no introductory bonus at all but great long-term value. If I knew the card wouldn't ever change I'd be using it, but we all know ANY card can be put on the chopping block at any time.

The industry invites this on itself. I don't look down on bonus hunters at all. I'll gladly be one myself as soon as I see something that entices me. It's not my fault card companies routinely nerf products once they've been on the market for a while, and offer introductory bonuses on new products designed to encourage people to switch over.


I agree that this change potentially makes the card more attractive for a "pump and dump" type, but Barclay's is not really keen on approving those types of applicants, so it kind of evens out.

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Re: Barclaycard Arrival+ decrease in benefits

Postby plaidington » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:39 am

Vermonster wrote:
plaidington wrote:For me the $100 minimum is a hassle... with the $25 minimum you could use your miles to pay the AF. Now according to their CSR - you will not longer be able to do that. I can understand changing a few things on the card, but they are changing a lot of things that negatively impact loyal customers. It sucks.


Why would you want to waste reward dollars on an AF? Unless I'm missing something, rewards are better used when saved and spent on large travel.


Well if you look at it this way - the $400 bonus could be used for AFs to make the card "free" for several years. Maybe you wouldn't do this and that is fine. But a lot of people were doing this.
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