Chase siggy to PIN

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MB131174
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Chase siggy to PIN

Postby MB131174 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:48 pm

Remember early in 2014 when Chase said they would be switching from chip & siggy to chip & PIN? I asked via twitter when they expect that to roll out. A few days later they finally replied that they don't know if they will be doing that. Either the social media team is clueless (possible) or Chase is scrapping the PIN plans (also possible). It seems that once they made their initial announcement about it they've gone completely silent about the subject.
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CC Deville
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Postby CC Deville » Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:08 pm

Yeah, I seem to recall that in February a higher up made an announcement at some card conference that Chase was planning on adding PIN to their 7 travel cards by the end of 2014. It was never really official, and as you indicated, nothing else has been said about it. It is also possible that they were going to move towards Chip + Choice, which is how many of the credit unions (PenFed, Andrews etc) are doing it (Chip + Signature 99% of the time and Chip + PIN on the off chance you are in Europe and use an unmanned kiosk).

Industry experts have long said though that most US issuers would go full on Chip + Signature (most by October 2015) and would eventually move towards Chip + PIN (probably 2017/2018 or so). So they may still be working on it.

If Apple Pay continues to be popular I would imagine most banks will prefer this method. Most banks knew that mobile payments would eclipse EMV (already a 20 year old technology) which is why they wanted to avoid EMV completely and go straight to mobile NFC payments. Me? I am secretly hoping Apple Pay gets hacked so that people will prefer to keep the plastic cards we have all come to know and love. It is, unfortunately, the wave of the future though and apparently very secure.

MB131174
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Postby MB131174 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:22 pm

my preference: Apple Pay then chip & PIN then chip & nothing (which is like EVERY walmart transaction) then chip & siggy.
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CC Deville
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Postby CC Deville » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:50 pm

MB131174 wrote:my preference: Apple Pay then chip & PIN then chip & nothing (which is like EVERY walmart transaction) then chip & siggy.


I like the idea of Chip + PIN as it is very European and that someone can't lift my card and use it at a physical location. I admit Apple Pay seems very secure at this point but I still prefer a physical card. Chip + Signature really does not make much sense to be honest but it is a means to an end (2017 ish Chip + PIN).

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Postby flan » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:28 pm

CC Deville wrote:I like the idea of Chip + PIN as it is very European and that someone can't lift my card and use it at a physical location.


And how many times has that happened to you?

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Postby augiedog » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:20 pm

The whole PIN issue makes me worried that someone will use some type of unsuspecting technology to record my PIN. I've always understood that debit transactions required a PIN and that credit transactions require a signature - signature-less transactions are relatively new if you are familiar with how people in the 90's used credit cards: you gave the card to the cashier and they handed you a pen and paper to sign. Some places like the Post Office do check for signature authenticity, some don't check at all, and Target now does random checks to make sure the card is authentic (the cashier has to look at the card and enter the last four digits).

PIN credit transactions may never take off in the US due to our complacency with our current methods. Even debit cards don't require PINs as you can always just press the "enter" button and a box for your signature comes up. My aunt was here recently and swiped her Canadian credit card in a terminal that has a keypad, and it required a signature - which would normally require a PIN in Canada.
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Postby takeshi » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:44 am

augiedog wrote:The whole PIN issue makes me worried that someone will use some type of unsuspecting technology to record my PIN.

It's possible (read up on card skimmers and how they're collecting PIN's as well) but you can't worry about every possibility and just have to rely on fraud protection and careful usage.

MB131174
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Postby MB131174 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:54 pm

flan wrote:And how many times has that happened to you?


It actually happened to my parents once. Had a credit card stolen they almost never used and was used for a weekend in Washington, DC apparently. This happened back before smartphones and email alerts. They had no idea it happened until they got a bill in the mail and then found their card was missing.
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Postby tmiw » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:20 pm

I was more bullish on Apple Pay/NFC before but in reality usage and acceptance will never come close to other countries even after most places in the US get chip terminals. Remember, a lot of them are behind the counter and inaccessible to customers. Continuing to keep them behind the counter and not buying separate PIN pads will most likely be a safe bet since outside tourist and border areas international cards with PIN will be rare. Even if NFC's turned on how will customers be able to use it? The vast majority of the time it will be easier for them to just hand over a chip and signature card for the clerk to insert than to try to convince him or her to allow tap to pay. In some places even chip and PIN will be a hassle and may be rejected by the merchant altogether in violation of Visa/MC rules.

IMO in a couple of years Visa and MC will probably start requiring that banks allow PIN bypass when the transaction is in the US precisely because of the C&P issue. I don't think they have the will to actually require customer side PIN pads or NFC readers.

(BTW I could be wrong. My perspective is probably skewed because I shop more often at smaller businesses than chain stores. FWIW chip and PIN probably won't be an issue at places like Target and Walmart that can already handle debit cards.)



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