CSP - Chip and Pin yet?

Discuss the Visa & MasterCard payment networks as well as cards that operate through them.
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wiivile
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CSP - Chip and Pin yet?

Postby wiivile » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:22 am

Chase said they'd have chip-and-pin CSP's around the end of this year, which is now a week away. Has anyone gotten or know if Chase is offering chip-and-pin CSP's yet?
    Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature: 11/2013, $15,000 CL
    Chase Freedom Visa: 11/2009, $4,700 CL
    U.S. Bank Cash+ Visa Signature: 11/2013, $11,200 CL


takeshi
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Postby takeshi » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:33 am

They're rolling them out. You can request one if you want it faster. I've had one for several months now. Most of the credit sites had threads when they were initially offered.

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lobbythis
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Postby lobbythis » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:51 pm

Yup. Sibling just got one last month, chipped.

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CarefulBuilder14
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Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:19 pm

lobbythis wrote:Yup. Sibling just got one last month, chipped.


Well, weren't they already all chipped - just Chip+Sig instead of Chip+PIN?

I haven't gone for a CSP yet, but might soon. A Chip+PIN CSP would make an Arrival unnecessary.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

tmiw
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Postby tmiw » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:26 pm

It's very unlikely that Chase will add PIN any time soon considering that nearly every other issuer has also decided to go the chip and signature route. (I consider cards that don't ask for a PIN the majority of the time to be chip and signature even if there's a PIN on the card.) IMO in a couple of years I'm not sure PIN will even matter much since our cards are working in more and more unattended train ticket machines, etc. that previously had issues. Still, one would be nice though.

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Postby MB131174 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:49 pm

tmiw wrote:It's very unlikely that Chase will add PIN any time soon considering that nearly every other issuer has also decided to go the chip and signature route. (I consider cards that don't ask for a PIN the majority of the time to be chip and signature even if there's a PIN on the card.) IMO in a couple of years I'm not sure PIN will even matter much since our cards are working in more and more unattended train ticket machines, etc. that previously had issues. Still, one would be nice though.


Actually in February Chase stated they were switching to chip & PIN by the end of the year. Granted, things like this get pushed back all the time, so I'm not surprised it's been delayed. My guess (totally random guess) would be sometimes early 2015 they'll launch the PIN cards.

Actually - I eventually see signature being the version that goes away eventually. Most, not all, but most of the western world that has adopted EMV has gone the PIN route. Any true chip & PIN card will ALWAYS ask for a PIN. My Diners Club (or, as I call it, my MasterCard Diners Club issued by Harris Bank which is a subsidiary of Bank of Montreal) is a true chip & PIN and I even have to enter the PIN for the smallest of transactions when using the chip. In October I was driving on the A7 in the Netherlands at night and had to get gas at one of the unattended gas stations. Had I not had my Diners Club card, I'd have been screwed. Places like that (as well as train ticket kiosks, etc) require a PIN card. Signature will absolutely not work in many kiosks abroad. They're not going to change their entire national programme for the sake of tourists. We need to get on the PIN bandwagon, IMO, more so than we are now.
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Postby tmiw » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:15 pm

MB131174 wrote:Actually in February Chase stated they were switching to chip & PIN by the end of the year. Granted, things like this get pushed back all the time, so I'm not surprised it's been delayed. My guess (totally random guess) would be sometimes early 2015 they'll launch the PIN cards.

Actually - I eventually see signature being the version that goes away eventually. Most, not all, but most of the western world that has adopted EMV has gone the PIN route. Any true chip & PIN card will ALWAYS ask for a PIN. My Diners Club (or, as I call it, my MasterCard Diners Club issued by Harris Bank which is a subsidiary of Bank of Montreal) is a true chip & PIN and I even have to enter the PIN for the smallest of transactions when using the chip. In October I was driving on the A7 in the Netherlands at night and had to get gas at one of the unattended gas stations. Had I not had my Diners Club card, I'd have been screwed. Places like that (as well as train ticket kiosks, etc) require a PIN card. Signature will absolutely not work in many kiosks abroad. They're not going to change their entire national programme for the sake of tourists. We need to get on the PIN bandwagon, IMO, more so than we are now.


The reason why I think the US will likely not go PIN any time soon is because it's actually less expensive to force everyone else to change:

Effective 1 July 2015 - all online-capable, chip-enabled unattended terminals must support the processing of transactions without a CVM (PDF)

Since all Visa cards have to have "no CVM" on the card, CSP should in theory be supported at almost all terminals by then. Of course, there are a few exemptions such as offline-only terminals (also becoming rarer) and those who haven't gotten software, etc. updates needed to support the new requirement in time.

Also, I too have the DC card and I found that it's actually more of a pain to use in the US at places that actually have working chip readers. Places that already had PIN support before (Walmart, grocery stores, etc.) are no issue--it's the smaller businesses and restaurants where it's more of a hassle. I've even had the DC card refused once because the terminal was behind the counter and there was no way to hand it to me to enter the PIN. And so far it looks like restaurants here aren't bothering with portable terminals like in Europe and elsewhere, so you'd have to be escorted to the back to enter the PIN. If there was some sort of government or Visa/MC mandate to adopt PIN then a lot of places will have to make investments in new terminals again, or at the very least separate PIN pads. Not something a small business wants to be told so soon after having been forced (on penalty of increased fraud liability) to upgrade the first time.

To be fair, part of this is Visa's fault for not providing more of an incentive to support PIN. But what's done is done. It'll probably be five or so years at least before the subject's even revisited again, and by then we might all be using Apple Pay or Google Wallet instead or something. :ppp

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Postby MB131174 » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:33 am

tmiw wrote:The reason why I think the US will likely not go PIN any time soon is because it's actually less expensive to force everyone else to change:

Effective 1 July 2015 - all online-capable, chip-enabled unattended terminals must support the processing of transactions without a CVM (PDF)

Since all Visa cards have to have "no CVM" on the card, CSP should in theory be supported at almost all terminals by then. Of course, there are a few exemptions such as offline-only terminals (also becoming rarer) and those who haven't gotten software, etc. updates needed to support the new requirement in time.

Also, I too have the DC card and I found that it's actually more of a pain to use in the US at places that actually have working chip readers. Places that already had PIN support before (Walmart, grocery stores, etc.) are no issue--it's the smaller businesses and restaurants where it's more of a hassle. I've even had the DC card refused once because the terminal was behind the counter and there was no way to hand it to me to enter the PIN. And so far it looks like restaurants here aren't bothering with portable terminals like in Europe and elsewhere, so you'd have to be escorted to the back to enter the PIN. If there was some sort of government or Visa/MC mandate to adopt PIN then a lot of places will have to make investments in new terminals again, or at the very least separate PIN pads. Not something a small business wants to be told so soon after having been forced (on penalty of increased fraud liability) to upgrade the first time.

To be fair, part of this is Visa's fault for not providing more of an incentive to support PIN. But what's done is done. It'll probably be five or so years at least before the subject's even revisited again, and by then we might all be using Apple Pay or Google Wallet instead or something. :ppp


Regardless of how many times I've read this, this still makes my head hurt. Whole thing sounds made up.
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tmiw
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Postby tmiw » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:26 pm

MB131174 wrote:Regardless of how many times I've read this, this still makes my head hurt. Whole thing sounds made up.


What part? My Diners Club PIN preferring card was in fact rejected at one merchant. And Visa is indeed making it so chip and signature cards are supposed to work at kiosks and the like.

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Postby flan » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:23 pm

tmiw wrote:What part? My Diners Club PIN preferring card was in fact rejected at one merchant. And Visa is indeed making it so chip and signature cards are supposed to work at kiosks and the like.


Yes, visa has decided they want to enforce the "if you say you take visa, that means you take visa" part of their merchant contracts. That's good news for everyone.



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