Got an education about "liberty loans"

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Got an education about "liberty loans"

Postby MemberSince99 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:08 pm

I sometimes eat a sandwich shop, and they have a picture of Uncle Sam saying "I ALWAYS pay my debts..." (I thought you can tell that's old) and talking about liberty loans and how Uncle Sam's debt is our debt (funny how that doesn't go the other way, I have to pay my debts AND Uncle's Sam's debts apparently) and we went in to win and win quickly and we did and now we have to pay our debts.

So I Googled this out of curiousity apparently this was for WW1. (I assumed WW2).

There were five of them and on the last one the bondholders basically ended up getting shafted on the last one. It was due to the economic issues of the 30s and the government simply seemed to want out of its promises to the bondholders and Wikipedia said they lost 41% of the principle by the government playing its games. That's a nice way to shaft them I guess. Can't say I'm terribly surprised though.

Makes me think with the mountain of debt we have eventually the government will just do the same, and yes it will be economic devastation as a result, but it won't be the first time they've done it. I've got some US Treasury bonds in my 401k, which I feel in a sense is foolish, but so far I've gotten nice returns, and I basically expect they'll screw me out of all of that before it's all over anyway so what the hell.

Which leads to a question - does anyone actually expect to ever receive social security or get your 401k money? Or are you all cynical like me and figure they'll screw us sooner or later.

And just a heads up - when they do screw me, I'll do like all the rest of the cowards in this country, and bleat like a sheep, sit back and take it, and say "Thank you sir may I have another". Let's be honest we ALL will. None of us will dare raise our voices and speak out about it. Just being totally honest, they know they can shaft us any way they feel like and get away with it because we are all gutless so essentially the way I see it we deserve it.

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Postby DoingHomework » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:06 pm

MemberSince99 wrote:
Which leads to a question - does anyone actually expect to ever receive social security or get your 401k money? Or are you all cynical like me and figure they'll screw us sooner or later.

Your 401(k) money is yours If you squander it you have no one to blame but yourself.

When I was younger I did not expect to receive Social Security. Now I know that I will. There are a lot of fearmongers out there but the reality is that the system is mostly sound. The worst case scenario is that they could only pay something like 75% of promised benefits starting in about 30 years. And for that over half of elected officials would have to vote for it. Now, remember that the reason there is a problem is that there will be far more older people than younger people. So it will be political suicide for any politician who votes to cut SS. They will raise taxes on young wage earners instead. That might start a revolution but the checks will keep coming.

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Postby hematino » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:02 pm

I'll be 30 in a couple years and I don't think I'll ever see a dime from Social Security. The whole system is topheavy and getting worse. Its true that the number of senior citizens is larger than ever right now, and still growing. Also, the proportion of Americans who collect SSDI has grown radically even in the last couple decades. Supposedly when the SSDI funding is slated to run out within the next 5 years (2016 actually, according to the Social Security chief actuary) they are going to continue making disability payments with the Social Security fund. This will deplete the system even faster. In turn it puts more strain on the taxpayer base that keeps SS going, because theres less people putting in. Working in the emergency room, I see people who are absolutely milking the system dry every day, crying poormouth but they go walking around talking on state of the art smartphones, and driving brand new luxury SUVs but somehow they're collecting disability for a bull**** ass reason and on Medicaid. There are lots of legit people who get disability, but there are much larger number of people who grab at any straw not to have to work for a living. Its kind of disgusting to me, who has always had two and sometimes three jobs to be able to support myself in a small apartment, have two cars (both from the 90s lol), and am a pretty low maintenance person. Anyways, I have zero expectation that SS will be around when I get anywhere even close to retirement age. Just my opinion.
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Postby djrez4 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:02 am

I'm defending my client against a lawsuit filed by someone on SSDI. Biggest leach I've ever seen. Plenty of others like him. That does not change the fact that there are people who legitimately cannot work. Another example of rotten apples ruining the bunch and a government lacking the resources to police it.

If we want to fix the system, we need to change the rules. The max wage limit for social security taxes needs to go. There is no legitimate reason to stop collecting the tax above $113,700 in wages. We need to shift the focus of government enforcement efforts off of petty drug crimes and onto fraud, both large and small. We waste resources on locking away a guy with a joint in his pocket and let fraudsters from the lowest SSDI leach to the largest bank off the hook. The pothead costs society nothing. The fraudsters suck money out of all of us. And, we need to do this without creating impossible hurdles for legitimate SSDI beneficiaries that delay or prevent their receipt of benefits.

We had a long conversation over dinner last night about the difficult job of balancing strict rules for preventing fraud on the one hand and the speed and efficiency to move quickly to provide life-saving benefits on the other. It came up in the context of organ transplants, but it translates well. There's a news story out there about a girl who, according to the strict rules, was too young to receive adult lungs as a transplant. Her parents had to sue and get a court order to push the transplant through and save her life. It's a perfect example of rules getting in the way of, instead of promoting, the right outcome. At the same time, to continue the organ transplant example, alcoholics receive liver transplants and drink their new livers to death, despite rules that are intended to prevent such outcomes.

Second example from dinner last night. The family of the woman sitting across from me had been through a 4-year lawsuit trying to get her father's medical insurance company to pay for his treatment after he fell down a flight of stairs and became quadriplegic. While I understand the insurance company's need to prevent people from faking lifestyle changing injuries just for a big payout, even the insurance company's attorney, off the record, told the family he thought it was ridiculous.

The rules and regulations regarding SSDI and social security in general need to be reveamped. I can be structured or modified to provide benefits that legitimate beneficiaries actually need while preventing the fraud and waste that everyone hollers about. We just need to have the will to sack up do something about it.
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