EMV, NFC, and Merchants

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mountaindewvoltage
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EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby mountaindewvoltage » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:59 pm

Does anyone else ever get annoyed that America is behind the rest of the world in payment and bank technology? It's like we live in the 1980's here but nobody seems to care. The liability shift proves that we can't do anything here without a high level of resistance. People seem so uneducated about how vulnerable magnetic-stripe is compared to contactless and EMV which is also highly annoying. Do we take pride in being more ignorant and selfish than the rest of the world? Like c'mon.

Whenever I go to a merchant like Burger King and see the typical food service "built into the screen" card readers without EMV or NFC reading capabilities, I get annoyed because the merchant hasn't even made an effort to buy the correct terminals... It's not like BK is just waiting for software certification, they just don't care about card security apparently because they don't even have the right equipment to accept EMV cards. Look at what happened to Wendy's earlier this year, and their response was, "Well we would rather pay for fraud than buy new terminals." Oh, you mean you don't care that grandmas' debit card was hacked and she has no money for the rest of the week? But in the U.K and Canada, I'm sure Wendy's has nothing but consumer facing chip terminals that take contactless payments. But because this is America they have to complain about implementing the technology here even though they've done it everywhere else years ago.

What is up with certain merchants suing the card companies for the liability shift? Every other major country had a liability shift and they just bought new terminals, complied with the rules, and had them certified. Heck, the government even stepped in to create some regulations. Nope, not here, merchants would rather sue one another instead and hope the liability shift gets lifted.

Speaking of being sued, what is up with this chip and signature crap? Just go to PIN. If a merchant doesn't have readers a consumer can access, they should be fined. My card should never leave my hand and it should be illegal for a merchant to even touch my card.

The government should stop sitting on their hands and clean this mess up. Payment and computer security should be a high priority for our government.


Tubpbs
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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby Tubpbs » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:42 am

mountaindewvoltage wrote:Does anyone else ever get annoyed that America is behind the rest of the world in payment and bank technology? It's like we live in the 1980's here but nobody seems to care. The liability shift proves that we can't do anything here without a high level of resistance. People seem so uneducated about how vulnerable magnetic-stripe is compared to contactless and EMV which is also highly annoying. Do we take pride in being more ignorant and selfish than the rest of the world? Like c'mon.

Whenever I go to a merchant like Burger King and see the typical food service "built into the screen" card readers without EMV or NFC reading capabilities, I get annoyed because the merchant hasn't even made an effort to buy the correct terminals... It's not like BK is just waiting for software certification, they just don't care about card security apparently because they don't even have the right equipment to accept EMV cards. Look at what happened to Wendy's earlier this year, and their response was, "Well we would rather pay for fraud than buy new terminals." Oh, you mean you don't care that grandmas' debit card was hacked and she has no money for the rest of the week? But in the U.K and Canada, I'm sure Wendy's has nothing but consumer facing chip terminals that take contactless payments. But because this is America they have to complain about implementing the technology here even though they've done it everywhere else years ago.

What is up with certain merchants suing the card companies for the liability shift? Every other major country had a liability shift and they just bought new terminals, complied with the rules, and had them certified. Heck, the government even stepped in to create some regulations. Nope, not here, merchants would rather sue one another instead and hope the liability shift gets lifted.

Speaking of being sued, what is up with this chip and signature crap? Just go to PIN. If a merchant doesn't have readers a consumer can access, they should be fined. My card should never leave my hand and it should be illegal for a merchant to even touch my card.

The government should stop sitting on their hands and clean this mess up. Payment and computer security should be a high priority for our government.


Well said. The government is too busy pretending to care about so many other things to bother with this unfortunately. They can't get anything done.

You're strongest statement in my opinion (and the one that sums it up) is that the card simply should never leave your hand. And you're right. It should be that simple.
Last edited by Tubpbs on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mountaindewvoltage
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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby mountaindewvoltage » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:05 am

Tubpbs wrote:
mountaindewvoltage wrote:Does anyone else ever get annoyed that America is behind the rest of the world in payment and bank technology? It's like we live in the 1980's here but nobody seems to care. The liability shift proves that we can't do anything here without a high level of resistance. People seem so uneducated about how vulnerable magnetic-stripe is compared to contactless and EMV which is also highly annoying. Do we take pride in being more ignorant and selfish than the rest of the world? Like c'mon.

Whenever I go to a merchant like Burger King and see the typical food service "built into the screen" card readers without EMV or NFC reading capabilities, I get annoyed because the merchant hasn't even made an effort to buy the correct terminals... It's not like BK is just waiting for software certification, they just don't care about card security apparently because they don't even have the right equipment to accept EMV cards. Look at what happened to Wendy's earlier this year, and their response was, "Well we would rather pay for fraud than buy new terminals." Oh, you mean you don't care that grandmas' debit card was hacked and she has no money for the rest of the week? But in the U.K and Canada, I'm sure Wendy's has nothing but consumer facing chip terminals that take contactless payments. But because this is America they have to complain about implementing the technology here even though they've done it everywhere else years ago.

What is up with certain merchants suing the card companies for the liability shift? Every other major country had a liability shift and they just bought new terminals, complied with the rules, and had them certified. Heck, the government even stepped in to create some regulations. Nope, not here, merchants would rather sue one another instead and hope the liability shift gets lifted.

Speaking of being sued, what is up with this chip and signature crap? Just go to PIN. If a merchant doesn't have readers a consumer can access, they should be fined. My card should never leave my hand and it should be illegal for a merchant to even touch my card.

The government should stop sitting on their hands and clean this mess up. Payment and computer security should be a high priority for our government.


Well said. The government is too busy pretending to care about so many other things to bother with this unfortunately. They can't get anything done.

You're stronger statement in my opinion (and the one that sums it up) is that the card simply should never leave your hand. And you're right. It should be that simple.


Thank you for agreeing, I'm glad someone else seems to understand what I'm talking about. When I tell my family, friends, and girlfriend about this stuff, they don't seem to care, but they're in with most other people that live here. I've never seen a nation so against contactless payments and chip cards and so for the least secure of the three. "$0 liability" isn't $0 liability on debit cards unless you have certain banks. You're out of your money until the bank investigates, and even then they either may not side with you, or they make charge up up to $50, and that's if you reported it within two days. Even then, you're out of your card until they send you another one. I understand credit cards are different but I feel like most people use debit cards for every day purchases.

It's even ridiculous that U.S Government organizations haven't adopted this yet... I still swipe at USPS, and while I haven't been to the DMV in years, I'm sure they still use swipe readers. Can't wait to see some kind of data breach at a local post office so the government will realize how much we need EMV and other, more secure payment technology.

When I pay in another country I want to blend in... Either swiping or signing a receipt after a transaction isn't letting me blend in with everyone else. The transactions should be prioritized as PIN, but we can't do that here because then the banks would have to reduce the transaction fees.

Are people really happy with being obese, dumb, paying skyrocketing prices for health care, being behind every other country when it comes to technology, and not having mandated vacation time from work every year?

I guess this is just a rant, lol. Tired of it.

Tubpbs
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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby Tubpbs » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:47 am

It's pretty bad witha debit card.

I had a business debit card from a medium to smal bank that I hadn't used in a long time and someone charged $19.99 on it. I called before the transaction posted, while it was still pending to tell them about the fraud.

They said it will take up to 90 days to return the money. WORST PART ABOUT IT (actual insanity) - I had to sign a document that says if I am lying basically I subject myself to up to $1,000,000 in fines and potential jail time.

I don't think I need to say any more. Absolutely sick and disgusting.
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mountaindewvoltage
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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby mountaindewvoltage » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:11 am

Tubpbs wrote:It's pretty bad witha debit card.

I had a business debit card from a medium to smal bank that I hadn't used in a long time and someone charged $19.99 on it. I called before the transaction posted, while it was still pending to tell them about the fraud.

They said it will take up to 90 days to return the money. WORST PART ABOUT IT (actual insanity) - I had to sign a document that says if I am lying basically I subject myself to up to $1,000,000 in fines and potential jail time.

I don't think I need to say any more. Absolutely sick and disgusting.


Lol a $1,000,000 fine and jail time over a $20 charge.

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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby badger83 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:12 am

mountaindewvoltage wrote:People seem so uneducated about how vulnerable magnetic-stripe is compared to contactless and EMV which is also highly annoying. Do we take pride in being more ignorant and selfish than the rest of the world? Like c'mon.



I was at the store the other day, which had finally installed EMV readers. The woman in front of me goes, "Augh! You guys have the new machines now too! The old ones worked just fine! But I guess when something works just fine, they have to go and change it, huh?"

I mean, I get that most people going about their every day business don't know the intricacies of card security. But you can bet they'd care immensely if another Target breach happened.

mountaindewvoltage
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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby mountaindewvoltage » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:56 pm

badger83 wrote:
mountaindewvoltage wrote:People seem so uneducated about how vulnerable magnetic-stripe is compared to contactless and EMV which is also highly annoying. Do we take pride in being more ignorant and selfish than the rest of the world? Like c'mon.



I was at the store the other day, which had finally installed EMV readers. The woman in front of me goes, "Augh! You guys have the new machines now too! The old ones worked just fine! But I guess when something works just fine, they have to go and change it, huh?"

I mean, I get that most people going about their every day business don't know the intricacies of card security. But you can bet they'd care immensely if another Target breach happened.


Perhaps someone should explain to the lady how the store is liable for fraudulent charges if they're purchased at that store with a chip-enabled card. Perhaps the cashier should've offered that lady customer pay for all of the fraud costs the store has to encounter so she can happily swipe her card(s) like it's still 1980.

I cannot stand living here sometimes. The people are just so stupid and it drives me nuts. Chip reading machines aren't "new" and they don't work "just fine," America has 25% of the world card population and 50% of the world's credit card fraud. It's going to take many years to finish everything off like paying for student loans and whatever else, but I think I'm going to move out of this backwards country full of stupid, highly resistant people that are required to work their life away in order to live an average lifestyle. I'm one of those people that would've interrupted her and plead my case about how she's an idiot and had no idea what she's talking about. I think this chip transition is showing how the average American has never been anywhere else.

Let's take away all fraud protection for debit cards and then maybe we'll see people care about security.

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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby badger83 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:14 pm

Perhaps the cashier should've offered that lady customer pay for all of the fraud costs the store has to encounter so she can happily swipe her card(s) like it's still 1980.


I'm sure the cashier is so sick of reminding people to keep the card in the slot until the transaction is finished, that there's no way in hell he's going to try to educate customers about the reasons for the new machines.

I've also talked with people who think that chip cards are being "mandated by the government" and are uneasy about "computer chips in their cards." :rolleyes:

mountaindewvoltage
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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby mountaindewvoltage » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:57 pm

badger83 wrote:
Perhaps the cashier should've offered that lady customer pay for all of the fraud costs the store has to encounter so she can happily swipe her card(s) like it's still 1980.


I'm sure the cashier is so sick of reminding people to keep the card in the slot until the transaction is finished, that there's no way in hell he's going to try to educate customers about the reasons for the new machines.

I've also talked with people who think that chip cards are being "mandated by the government" and are uneasy about "computer chips in their cards." :rolleyes:


It shouldn't be hard for a customer to understand... I mean after the first time you ever use a chipped card in a chip reader, you should know to leave the card in the slot until it says to remove the card, or until the cashier tells you to remove the card.

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Re: EMV, NFC, and Merchants

Postby TXviking » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:51 am

In Europe, I could transfer money to anyone with a bank account in pretty much real-time. So it was totally realistic, for example, to buy something off a classified ad, go to the seller's house, transfer money to him from your phone AT his house and it would show up before you left.

In the US, transfers take days (sometimes over a week), there are all kinds of silly restrictions (e.g. I can transfer to my own account at other institutions, or other people's accounts at the same institution, but not other people's accounts at other institutions without using silliness like Chase Quickpay that requires the RECIPIENT to sign up with Chase? Seriously?)

Then, of course, there's chip and pin. The uS finally has chip cards now, but they're not universal. The places that DO accept them for some reason take like 30 seconds to process a chip transaction. And I still have to sign a slip.

There are many things I like about living in the US, but the banking system does seem rather clunky and antiquated. :beat:



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