Apparently you don't REALLY own your home

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CarefulBuilder14
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Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:26 am

notcool wrote:my great grandparents lived in a totalitarian country before coming to the USA. Despite the posts above an HOA is not in any meaningful way like a totalitarian state. Neither are most local building codes. Of course hoas and local codes are subject to criticism but many people like an hoa and building codes are probably necessary to promote safe housing. I don't think the comparison is fair.


I agree. It's Milwaukee, not East Berlin.

The part about the streets is not surprising. I've driven in WI a bit and the constant freezing and thawing damages roads to an extent warmer-weather people find hard to imagine.
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Postby djrez4 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:43 am

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:I agree. It's Milwaukee, not East Berlin.

The part about the streets is not surprising. I've driven in WI a bit and the constant freezing and thawing damages roads to an extent warmer-weather people find hard to imagine.


While true, it's the result of American culture. We expect roads to be paved or repaired as cheaply and quickly as possible and, in exchange, sacrifice life cycle. Sweden, as a counter-example, requires certain additives in all asphalt roads and has tougher limits on air bubbles within the paving layer. Both of these requirements extend the life of roads that are exposed to freeze-thaw cycles and moisture. It adds a bit of expense up front, but roads last 2-3 times as long without needing repair or replacement.
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Postby MemberSince99 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:49 am

I have thought about this and is it REALLY cheaper when every road is under construction half the year like you see here in Wisconsin? Try driving here sometime it can be a real beatch to get to your destination trying to get through all the non-stop road construction. And I don't mean new road construction I mean repairing the bombed out roads we have. It goes on year after year, and I got to thinking is this REALLY saving money or is it just another jobs program? I suspect the latter. I'd really like to see the results of an unbiased study on the cost of doing it right vs doing it "cheap". I suspect the construction companies would not like doing it the Swedish way as it would cut into their bottom lines, but it could well be better for the taxpayers and the motorists, not that this matters a bit.

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Postby djrez4 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:39 am

I wasn't clear and you're right.

The upfront cost of American asphalt is cheaper, but the life cycle is so much shorter that it ends up costing more in the long run.
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Postby OldMan » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:23 pm

djrez4 wrote:I wasn't clear and you're right.

The upfront cost of American asphalt is cheaper, but the life cycle is so much shorter that it ends up costing more in the long run.


Yes and no. While the cost to repair the roads is more, verses a longer life cycle, it serves a secondary purpose. It employs local labor. (most states require local labor) And while I truly think it winds up costing the tax payer more in the long run, I also believe that the jobs it creates probably brings it closer to a break even point.

I would much rather my tax dollars go to paying a repair crew, that now has the ability to care for their families, than those same tax dollars being used on welfare. The pride one gets from holding down a job, the social problems that are prevented by those jobs, (ie. crime) tends to make me a little less likely to complain about the road crews.

This is of course only my opinion, but it's how I chose to look at it.
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Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:22 pm

OldMan wrote:Yes and no. While the cost to repair the roads is more, verses a longer life cycle, it serves a secondary purpose. It employs local labor. (most states require local labor) And while I truly think it winds up costing the tax payer more in the long run, I also believe that the jobs it creates probably brings it closer to a break even point.

I would much rather my tax dollars go to paying a repair crew, that now has the ability to care for their families, than those same tax dollars being used on welfare. The pride one gets from holding down a job, the social problems that are prevented by those jobs, (ie. crime) tends to make me a little less likely to complain about the road crews.

This is of course only my opinion, but it's how I chose to look at it.


I'd rather have functional, efficient transportation, welfare, and temporary unemployment than endless expensive repairs and horrible traffic. Roads are much more useful as things people can eventually drive on, rather than purely cosmetic construction projects.

Edit: Again, that comment may sound crazy to some, but people who have driven there understand. When, at any time, a major portion of a city's roads are under repair, it really is a big inconvenience when the traffic all gets rerouted. The economic burden of a bad transportation system is a big problem for anyone who isn't in the business of repairing roads.
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Postby djrez4 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:40 pm

OldMan wrote:I would much rather my tax dollars go to paying a repair crew, that now has the ability to care for their families, than those same tax dollars being used on welfare.


Certainly.

However, if the roads lasted longer, that same construction crew could be doing something else - fixing our dilapidated infrastructure, for example. Bridges need repair and replacement; the national power grid needs a major upgrade. A small increase in the initial cost of a road repair job will free up crews to take care of other jobs. It won't put them out of work.
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Postby jlam572 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:03 pm

Out here in Hawaii, you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as it doesn't interfere with the association, if any, that you belong to. Only need permits for expansions I believe.
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Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:15 pm

That sounds good to me.


I suspect, and this is only a suspicion I do not have facts to back it up, but I suspect part of the reason for all of this is so they know exactly what you are doing to your home, and thus, know when they might consider re-assessing the value to increase tax revenue. I can't really see them getting off on being in total control over anything you want to do to your home, there are probably a few fascist wanna bes who do, but in general that's probably not really it, it's probably about the money.



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