Scottish Independence?

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Should Scotland be independent?

Stay in the UK
5
38%
Independence, my bonnie!
8
62%
 
Total votes : 13

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CarefulBuilder14
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Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:15 pm

otter,

The Irish-descended people I've known have been almost exclusively Catholic (or a bit rebellious against their upbringing and no longer Catholic, but certainly not Protestant). So it hasn't come up much, since most people knew others were the same. They're not fans of the English/people of English descent.

Perhaps 'Protestant or Catholic?' is simply easier than asking a long-winded, but technically more accurate, question involving political allegiances, ancestry and cultural identity?

Edit: Also, the Irish-descended Catholic people I grew up around got along pretty well with Protestants who weren't of English ancestry. So that's part of why it doesn't seem inherently religious to me.
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Postby djrez4 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:59 pm

Simplification, yes. Oversimplification? I don't think so. The line that divides the ethnic Irish from the English is very similar to the Catholic/Protestant line. It's inappropriate to disregard the creation of the Church of England and split from the Vatican and the rift that created on the British Isles.
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otter
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Postby otter » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:55 pm

djrez4 wrote:Simplification, yes. Oversimplification? I don't think so. The line that divides the ethnic Irish from the English is very similar to the Catholic/Protestant line. It's inappropriate to disregard the creation of the Church of England and split from the Vatican and the rift that created on the British Isles.


If you are looking at it from an Anglocentric perspective, then the discussion of Anglicanism is relevant. From the Irish (or Scottish or Welsh) perspective, it's never been a religious issue, but rather an ethnic issue. Getting back to the Scottish vote, it has nothing to do with the English and Anglicanism vs. Scotland and Presbyterianism. It does have everything to with the fact that poll after poll shows the Scottish consider themselves Scottish first and British second in contrast to England where they see themselves as British first and English second.

And yes, when you say "The split happened long ago because of the divide between Catholics and Protestants" that is an oversimplification. No one would say the animosity through the centuries between England and France is "Protestant vs. Catholic." The fact that the two (traditionally) have different religions is only part of the differences between the two ignoring ethnic, historical, and linguistic differences dating back well before the reformation.
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Postby MemberSince99 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:56 am

MB131174 wrote:I'm gonna declare my apartment's independence from the rest of the complex so I can quit paying rent.



Let us know how that works out, from your local internet hotspot....

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Postby djrez4 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:32 am

otter wrote:Getting back to the Scottish vote, it has nothing to do with the English and Anglicanism vs. Scotland and Presbyterianism. It does have everything to with the fact that poll after poll shows the Scottish consider themselves Scottish first and British second in contrast to England where they see themselves as British first and English second.


Well, now you're just making things up. No one said the Scottish referendum was religiously-based.
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Postby otter » Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:09 pm

djrez4 wrote:Well, now you're just making things up. No one said the Scottish referendum was religiously-based.


I could be mistaken, but I think you said:

djrez4 wrote: It's inappropriate to disregard the creation of the Church of England and split from the Vatican and the rift that created on the British Isles.


Forgive me if I misunderstood you...

But the referendum has failed- I didn't feel strongly either way, but one thing I think is interesting is that the deciding vote was probably those of Asian decent (Indian, Pakistan, etc) who voted overwhelmingly NO. This compares to the Quebec vote of 20 years ago where the Allophones (those who speak a language other than English or French at home) voted NO. It seems those newer to the country tend to identity with the nationality rather than the section, and sectional rivalry doesn't really appeal to them all that much
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Postby djrez4 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:20 pm

I was talking about N. Ireland in that statement.
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Re: Scottish Independence?

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:50 pm

I wonder if Scottish independence advocates will succeed on their next try. A lot of Scots would rather be in the EU than the UK.

If you look at regional voting in the UK over the recent "Brexit" referendum, Scots were very heavily in favor of remaining in the EU.
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Re: Scottish Independence?

Postby TXviking » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:40 pm

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:I wonder if Scottish independence advocates will succeed on their next try. A lot of Scots would rather be in the EU than the UK.

If you look at regional voting in the UK over the recent "Brexit" referendum, Scots were very heavily in favor of remaining in the EU.


I would not be at all surprised to see the "brexit" trigger another independence referendum in Scotland. The UK may have shot themselves in the foot here.

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Re: Scottish Independence?

Postby Tubpbs » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:50 pm

...on several fronts. I don't know if it was the UK as much as a hoard of uneducated citizens.
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