Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

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kcm7
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Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby kcm7 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:43 pm

Just got back from a trip (Middle East and India) and, while card acceptance was WAY better than it was before U.S. cards got chips, I kept surprising merchants with my "strange" chip card that didn't require a PIN.

Anyway, they'd dip the chip and then wait... stare at the machine...wait and then remark, "It did not ask me for a PIN. The transaction is complete, sorry there's nothing I can do." I finally figured out they were thinking I'd be upset because I didn't "get to" put my PIN in and would, naturally, be worried about the security of the transaction. Whenever I explained that most U.S. cards were chip with no PIN, I was met with confusion, as if that made no sense, and what was the point?
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Tubpbs
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Re: Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby Tubpbs » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:28 pm

kcm7 wrote:Just got back from a trip (Middle East and India) and, while card acceptance was WAY better than it was before U.S. cards got chips, I kept surprising merchants with my "strange" chip card that didn't require a PIN.

Anyway, they'd dip the chip and then wait... stare at the machine...wait and then remark, "It did not ask me for a PIN. The transaction is complete, sorry there's nothing I can do." I finally figured out they were thinking I'd be upset because I didn't "get to" put my PIN in and would, naturally, be worried about the security of the transaction. Whenever I explained that most U.S. cards were chip with no PIN, I was met with confusion, as if that made no sense, and what was the point?


That's because it doesn't make any sense and it's stupid what they did with the sig instead of pin.
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augiedog
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Re: Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby augiedog » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:17 pm

Tubpbs wrote:
That's because it doesn't make any sense and it's stupid what they did with the sig instead of pin.


The biggest advantage of having a signature card is that it can operate in signature-less mode. A lot of the time you don't need to sign for purchases under $50, which is very convenient. I don't believe cards that are PIN-only can operate PIN-less.

I'm not sure if this has changed, but it seems that using signature-only cards at some unmanned kiosks, such as train ticketing booths in Europe, has been a problem. Normally what would happen domestically would be the machine asking for a ZIP code, such as at a gas station, but those are US-specific. Seems strange they couldn't get a signature with all the touch screens we have these days.
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Tubpbs
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Re: Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby Tubpbs » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:04 pm

augiedog wrote:
Tubpbs wrote:
That's because it doesn't make any sense and it's stupid what they did with the sig instead of pin.


The biggest advantage of having a signature card is that it can operate in signature-less mode. A lot of the time you don't need to sign for purchases under $50, which is very convenient. I don't believe cards that are PIN-only can operate PIN-less.

I'm not sure if this has changed, but it seems that using signature-only cards at some unmanned kiosks, such as train ticketing booths in Europe, has been a problem. Normally what would happen domestically would be the machine asking for a ZIP code, such as at a gas station, but those are US-specific. Seems strange they couldn't get a signature with all the touch screens we have these days.



I hear what you're saying but the purpose of the switch to EMV was not convenience - it was security. It is inarguable that the PIN feature is significantly more secure than the signature.

I take this a prime example of American behavior / politics. It's just enough to appease people that don't know what their talking about or what's going on. However, the people in control, know exactly what's going on and what should have been done, but don't do it anyway.
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augiedog
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Re: Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby augiedog » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:00 am

The switch to EMV has nothing to do with the security of whoever possesses the card. It has always been with reproducing a card. Which isn't possible with EMV.
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Tubpbs
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Re: Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby Tubpbs » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:14 pm

augiedog wrote:The switch to EMV has nothing to do with the security of whoever possesses the card. It has always been with reproducing a card. Which isn't possible with EMV.


How is that not security related?
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augiedog
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Re: Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby augiedog » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:28 pm

Tubpbs wrote:
augiedog wrote:The switch to EMV has nothing to do with the security of whoever possesses the card. It has always been with reproducing a card. Which isn't possible with EMV.


How is that not security related?


EMV in America was meant to prevent database hacks, like what happened to Target and Home Depot. It will also stop others from stealing card numbers from ATMs and gas pumps.

However, without a PIN it exactly stop anyone from using the card who may have stolen the card itself. Stolen cards does not seem to be a big issue with the banks as much as the card number's security.
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Re: Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby Tubpbs » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:39 pm

Security...
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BoA - BankAmericard Cash Rewards
Chase - Freedom, CSP, RC, Ink Plus
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TXviking
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Re: Chip no PIN -- confusing merchants abroad

Postby TXviking » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:35 am

I just used my card in Qatar, Thailand and Australia. Merchants were at times scrambling for a pen for the signature, but nobody seemed particularly confused, even in non-touristy areas. YMMV.



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