June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

For just about anything you want to get off your chest about credit cards.
107 posts
skimmie48
Green Member
Green Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 1:00 pm
Location: WI

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby skimmie48 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:38 pm

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:What's with the ideas to PC to Freedom Unlimited? We're nearing the end of groceries/warehouse clubs and about to start restaurants.

How do you eat, if not through one of those three channels? :confused:


Edit: I know Sam's Club, Walmart, and Target are popular and don't code as grocery, often.


I would PC my Slate not my Freedom.


To My Credit
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 1:24 pm

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby To My Credit » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:37 pm

I don't see you guys talk about the Citi Double Cash card much on here. Is there anything, other than the sign-up bonus of $150, that Chase Freedom Unlimited has over Citi Double Cash?

Disclaimer: I realize that, in this thread, people would have to go for Unlimited because it's a PC, but I'm just wondering in general.
Current cards: BankAmericard CR, BankAmericard BBR, Citi Double Cash, Chase Freedom, AmEx BCE, Discover It
Wishlist: US Bank Cash+

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:08 am

To My Credit wrote:I don't see you guys talk about the Citi Double Cash card much on here. Is there anything, other than the sign-up bonus of $150, that Chase Freedom Unlimited has over Citi Double Cash?

Disclaimer: I realize that, in this thread, people would have to go for Unlimited because it's a PC, but I'm just wondering in general.

1. A lot of people can get 2 cpp or more in value from travel points.
2. A lot of people are in the double-rewards promotion with Discover (and/or some other promotion that gives 2%+).
3. The lack of a bonus will discourage many bonus hunters.
4. IMO, the card's best perk (Price Rewind) is available on many other Citi cards. Prestige, Premier, Hilton, and AA cards are popular.

Freedom Unlimited's bonus and rewards are a lot more exciting when the URs are transferrable with an AF card. If you view it purely as a no-AF cash back card, then in that light it's pretty boring.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

kdm31091
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:35 pm
Location: Claymont, DE

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby kdm31091 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:11 am

To My Credit wrote:I don't see you guys talk about the Citi Double Cash card much on here. Is there anything, other than the sign-up bonus of $150, that Chase Freedom Unlimited has over Citi Double Cash?

Disclaimer: I realize that, in this thread, people would have to go for Unlimited because it's a PC, but I'm just wondering in general.


Double Cash is a great, solid, long term use card. However, it has no sign up bonus. Obtaining any card with a $100-$200 sign up bonus will come out ahead for many thousands of dollars in spending.

To My Credit
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 1:24 pm

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby To My Credit » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:53 am

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:1. A lot of people can get 2 cpp or more in value from travel points.
2. A lot of people are in the double-rewards promotion with Discover (and/or some other promotion that gives 2%+).
3. The lack of a bonus will discourage many bonus hunters.
Makes sense. What does 'cpp' mean, though?
4. IMO, the card's best perk (Price Rewind) is available on many other Citi cards. Prestige, Premier, Hilton, and AA cards are popular.
Doesn't Discover have this perk, too, under the name "Price Protection"?
Freedom Unlimited's bonus and rewards are a lot more exciting when the URs are transferrable with an AF card. If you view it purely as a no-AF cash back card, then in that light it's pretty boring.
Doesn't CSP give a 25% bonus on URs? If you have a CSP, would the 1.5% on the Freedom Ultimate would add up to 1.875% on the CSP in eligible purchases?
kdm31091 wrote:Double Cash is a great, solid, long term use card. However, it has no sign up bonus. Obtaining any card with a $100-$200 sign up bonus will come out ahead for many thousands of dollars in spending.
I just did the math and the 0.5% cashback difference between Freedom Unlimited and Double Cash would amount to a difference of $30,000 in spending. More if you account for the transferable URs. I can see why people find Freedom Unlimited more appealing, at least in the short term.
Current cards: BankAmericard CR, BankAmericard BBR, Citi Double Cash, Chase Freedom, AmEx BCE, Discover It
Wishlist: US Bank Cash+

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:37 am

Cpp = cents per point. If a $200 hotel room can be obtained for 10000 hotel points, that's 2 cpp.

There's some subjectivity in how to calculate it. For instance, some award travel earns points, there may be an alternative option for a lower cash price, and some points can be wasted or inefficiently used.*

Citi Price Rewind is somewhat automated and sometimes easy to start, so I throw a lot of my purchases on there and see what savings pop up. For major purchases I will do my own research, but savings on small purchases add up.

*This being especially relevant when transferring MR-type points in batches.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

AMEXPlatino86
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:51 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby AMEXPlatino86 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:09 pm

It's been a long time since I've posted on this forum but nonetheless, I've been gardening and haven't really found the need for anymore cards at the time. I did back in December pick up the American Express SimplyCash Business for my business and have made good use of it but everything that I have in my profile has been of good use.
Wells Fargo Platinum 2.100 (5/2011-cld 7/12/14)
AmEx Platinum (6/12)
Barclays Apple (6/12)
AMEX Gold Delta (5/13)
Marriott Rewards (7/14)

My credit score :cool:
EQ: unknown
EX: 762
TU: 752

yfan
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:55 pm
Location: San Jose CA

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby yfan » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:28 pm

To My Credit wrote:
kdm31091 wrote:Double Cash is a great, solid, long term use card. However, it has no sign up bonus. Obtaining any card with a $100-$200 sign up bonus will come out ahead for many thousands of dollars in spending.
I just did the math and the 0.5% cashback difference between Freedom Unlimited and Double Cash would amount to a difference of $30,000 in spending. More if you account for the transferable URs. I can see why people find Freedom Unlimited more appealing, at least in the short term.

One difference that is in favor of the Double Cash, though, is that Chase almost never gives out SP CLIs. Citi does. So if Chase gives you a low limit on the Freedom or the Freedom Unlimited, you are kind of stuck with it unless you are willing to take a hard pull for another card, and even then there's no guarantee you'll get a good limit on THAT card. Citi will do SP CLIs every 6 months, at least up to a point.

Is that specifically great for rewards? No, but I have often found that people do not account for the opportunity cost of bonus. It isn't just a matter of giving up the extra 0.5% on the DC as opposed to the Freedom. But when you get a card that has a minimum spend for a bonus, you may be using that card in places where other cards may give you a better rate, not just as a base rate but through a promotion. Right now one of my Amex offers is for Virgin Atlantic flights (or Air France). Spend $1K, get $200 back. If I do that on a Freedom because I need to meet the minimum spend, my total return is: $150 + $15 (1.5% of $1K) or $165. For my BCE, that total is $210 ($200 from the Amex offer and $10 as 1% of $1K). But the Freedom's spend requirement is small and it's reasonable it could be covered by other expenses that don't have such lucrative promos from other cards, depending on what someone spends on and how much. This math gets even more biting when we are talking about larger spend requirements, like the $4K spend requirement for the CSP.

My point is that bonuses need to be put into context against someone's entire profile and opportunities from existing cards, not just one alternative product. If you are foregoing great deals to earn a bonus on an everyday spend card, perhaps you don't come out as much ahead as you think and a higher rate, long term, no bonus card should be considered.

To My Credit
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 1:24 pm

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby To My Credit » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:58 pm

yfan wrote:One difference that is in favor of the Double Cash, though, is that Chase almost never gives out SP CLIs. Citi does. So if Chase gives you a low limit on the Freedom or the Freedom Unlimited, you are kind of stuck with it unless you are willing to take a hard pull for another card, and even then there's no guarantee you'll get a good limit on THAT card. Citi will do SP CLIs every 6 months, at least up to a point.
Something to consider for sure. Right now, I have my sights set on getting the Double Cash card next, but I want to eventually get the CSP (maybe 2 years down the line) and that is making me consider the CFU for the UR.

Is that specifically great for rewards? No, but I have often found that people do not account for the opportunity cost of bonus. It isn't just a matter of giving up the extra 0.5% on the DC as opposed to the Freedom. But when you get a card that has a minimum spend for a bonus, you may be using that card in places where other cards may give you a better rate, not just as a base rate but through a promotion. Right now one of my Amex offers is for Virgin Atlantic flights (or Air France). Spend $1K, get $200 back. If I do that on a Freedom because I need to meet the minimum spend, my total return is: $150 + $15 (1.5% of $1K) or $165. For my BCE, that total is $210 ($200 from the Amex offer and $10 as 1% of $1K). But the Freedom's spend requirement is small and it's reasonable it could be covered by other expenses that don't have such lucrative promos from other cards, depending on what someone spends on and how much. This math gets even more biting when we are talking about larger spend requirements, like the $4K spend requirement for the CSP.
Great point. The bonuses of some of these cards like CSP and PRG are great, but you tend to lose out on maximum rewards in your quest to meet the spending goals. Which is why I made a mental note not to apply for any of those cards until I have a large, non-specific expense that I can put on those cards (though I'd probably still be losing out on $20-$40 if I have the Double Cash by then). Like you said, unless you plan it out pretty meticulously, the actual differential is rarely as much as the bonus.

My point is that bonuses need to be put into context against someone's entire profile and opportunities from existing cards, not just one alternative product. If you are foregoing great deals to earn a bonus on an everyday spend card, perhaps you don't come out as much ahead as you think and a higher rate, long term, no bonus card should be considered.
It looks like we're not going to be getting any new card that's going to offer a better cashback than the Double Cash's 2%. That makes it a great long-term card for miscellaneous expenses, like you and kdm have said. The best alternative would perhaps be the CFU card for its sign-up bonus and the UR, provided you have the CSP.
Current cards: BankAmericard CR, BankAmericard BBR, Citi Double Cash, Chase Freedom, AmEx BCE, Discover It
Wishlist: US Bank Cash+

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: June 2016 Garden Club/Cult

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Is that specifically great for rewards? No, but I have often found that people do not account for the opportunity cost of bonus. It isn't just a matter of giving up the extra 0.5% on the DC as opposed to the Freedom. But when you get a card that has a minimum spend for a bonus, you may be using that card in places where other cards may give you a better rate, not just as a base rate but through a promotion. Right now one of my Amex offers is for Virgin Atlantic flights (or Air France). Spend $1K, get $200 back. If I do that on a Freedom because I need to meet the minimum spend, my total return is: $150 + $15 (1.5% of $1K) or $165. For my BCE, that total is $210 ($200 from the Amex offer and $10 as 1% of $1K). But the Freedom's spend requirement is small and it's reasonable it could be covered by other expenses that don't have such lucrative promos from other cards, depending on what someone spends on and how much. This math gets even more biting when we are talking about larger spend requirements, like the $4K spend requirement for the CSP.

- I find it helpful to use a 3% difference guideline. Assuming there's no relevant perk to consider, I don't use a card for minimum spend if an old card will give me the cash or points equivalent of 3%+ more.

Example: URs are better than MRs, but not hugely. Uber spend went to Platinum minimum spend, since 2x MRs was inferior to 2x URs, but by maybe 1% only. The difference was less than 3% cash.

OTOH, 5x URs and 10% cash are much better than 1x MR, so there's no way I'm using Platinum for restaurants or groceries. The difference is much more than 3%.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when



Return to “General Credit Card Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests