December 2015 Garden Club

For just about anything you want to get off your chest about credit cards.
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CarefulBuilder14
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:40 am

With a bit more credit experience, I've come to the view that cards with signup bonuses worth about $400 (or more with efficient point use) and annual fees of about $100 (waived the first year or not) are often approached with too much hesitation, and too much attention is often placed on the annual fee. A person shouldn't overspend to earn a bonus, only to later pay interest, but I think there's often too much caution when someone with a clean history thinks, "I could make good use of that bonus, but then I'd have to pay an annual fee every year."

Lots of people close no-AF cards (or let them go inactive) after 2-3 years (or even a few months). I'm sure there are others here like me with no closed accounts, but I see a lot of other people closing no-AF, low-bonus, low-rewards cards and I think to myself, "What was the point of you getting that card? Sure, it had no AF, but you only ended up keeping it for 6/12/18/24 months. If you'd just gone for the airline bonus, your credit report would look just like it does now, but you'd have gotten another $300 in value from the card while the account was open."
Wallet: Prestige CSP SchwabPlat Freedom It Hyatt SallieMae AAPlat
SD: Arrival BrooksBros BCE ED IHG
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when


kdm31091
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby kdm31091 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:15 am

RewardsHunter17 wrote:
kdm31091 wrote:
Vermonster wrote:The biggest thing that people need to look at is "opportunity cost." Yes an app spree helps your AAoA by loading HPs and accounts at the same time and letting everything age together. But you generally end up with a ton of 0% offers that will be virtually wasted, or minimum spends that won't be met, or bonus savings that will be worthless. Opening that AARP for the extra 1% (which is already worthless if you eat in one day a year) might reduce the chances of a cli later on other cards. Those 36 store cards might lower your chances for a decent mortgage later in life costing you thousands in interest.

I'm sure people would reconsider the "$500 left on the table" if they could see everything they had to give up later in life for it.


Exactly, and I'm glad the people on this forum understand this concept far far better than the myfico sheep who open that AARP for the extra 1% every day. It's not even so much they make the choice to chase the rewards -- that's fine if that's what they want to do, although I think it's foolish -- but the bigger problem is that NOBODY ever points out any of the potential pitfalls or long term consequences. It's always: "Your score is good enough! The prequal is golden! Chase loves ____!" You'll be fine! 3% dining is awesome!"...and nothing else. While I get that it's not up to a community to be someone's financial advisor, it still seems that rewards of piddling value are placed about literally everything else. A newcomer on there can't really make an informed decision when the only responses are "did you app yet? The bonus is great!" etc

There's also the fact that that tiny "extra reward" prompts many people to spend more than they previously did, negating any actual benefit. Like the person on myfico who claimed he maxed out his Cash+ fast food...like, if you're spending 2k in 3 months on fast food alone, I think you need to stop eating 3 meals a day at Mcdonald's! It's not like he said he used fast food and another category and hit the cumulative maximum -- nope, fast food spending of 2k in a quarter. Plus he has an AARP that he "gets a lot of use out of". Yet his Sallie Mae is also "beloved" for the groceries...how can someone eat out that much AND buy that much in groceries? Overspending for rewards and following the myfico crowd, methinks.

More relevant to this specific point, he also says he wants a mortgage in the next year. So the opportunity cost of applying for 6-7 cards in the past 2 months for pennies in extra rewards will likely be that he'll face a higher mortgage rate which will force him to pay for those rewards many times over. Smart logic, eh?


I'm sorry, KDM, but this post just isn't true.

In the US Bank Cash+ thread, I said explicitly that 85% of my spending was on cell phone (post #24) and not fast food. As you just stated above that I posted that my spending was all from fast food and not another category, you are making a categorically false statement. I said that nowhere in that thread, nor anywhere else.
http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit- ... 6#M1238566

Furthermore, I said explicitly in a separate thread my personal life circumstances had changed quite a bit from when I made my post about seeking a mortgage and that I would not be seeking a mortgage within a year after all. You, in fact, acknowledged that I was not going to be getting a mortgage within a year in post #20, so this is another categorically false statement.

Here is the thread:
http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit- ... 513/page/2

I would ask that you please be truthful in your representations in the future.


You are missing the point. Yes, you eventually said you weren't actually getting a mortgage in the near future, but you still have it on the horizon so applying for a bunch of cards was probably not a smart move. What's done is done, but it seemed you were simply following the crowd and chasing every penny in rewards.

As far as the fast food/Cash+ thing, perhaps I was remembering wrong, but again, the larger point was that if someone is eating out enough that they are getting substantial rewards from a Cash+, an AARP, and buying dining GCs from grocery stores (I know you said before you did that), they perhaps are spending way more on eating out because they are chasing rewards. Maybe that's true for you, maybe it's not.

The overreaching point of the post was that there are many people, which you were an example, who open a bunch of cards to chase tiny extra bits in rewards. And as stated, that's fine if that's what you want to do. I was stating that I think it's silly/unnecessary. Nuances about a mortgage or fast food aside, you still opened a bunch of extra cards for a little bit more in rewards on one thing or another. And I used to do the same thing for awhile until I wised up that it wasn't worthwhile to chase every penny. You are an example of someone who fell into the same pattern, so I was pointing out that it's not worth it for many people. So hopefully instead of getting mad about my post you will reconsider chasing every penny in rewards and focus on other aspects of credit building, too, not JUST rewards. :)

RewardsHunter17
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby RewardsHunter17 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:35 am

kdm31091 wrote:
RewardsHunter17 wrote:
kdm31091 wrote:
Exactly, and I'm glad the people on this forum understand this concept far far better than the myfico sheep who open that AARP for the extra 1% every day. It's not even so much they make the choice to chase the rewards -- that's fine if that's what they want to do, although I think it's foolish -- but the bigger problem is that NOBODY ever points out any of the potential pitfalls or long term consequences. It's always: "Your score is good enough! The prequal is golden! Chase loves ____!" You'll be fine! 3% dining is awesome!"...and nothing else. While I get that it's not up to a community to be someone's financial advisor, it still seems that rewards of piddling value are placed about literally everything else. A newcomer on there can't really make an informed decision when the only responses are "did you app yet? The bonus is great!" etc

There's also the fact that that tiny "extra reward" prompts many people to spend more than they previously did, negating any actual benefit. Like the person on myfico who claimed he maxed out his Cash+ fast food...like, if you're spending 2k in 3 months on fast food alone, I think you need to stop eating 3 meals a day at Mcdonald's! It's not like he said he used fast food and another category and hit the cumulative maximum -- nope, fast food spending of 2k in a quarter. Plus he has an AARP that he "gets a lot of use out of". Yet his Sallie Mae is also "beloved" for the groceries...how can someone eat out that much AND buy that much in groceries? Overspending for rewards and following the myfico crowd, methinks.

More relevant to this specific point, he also says he wants a mortgage in the next year. So the opportunity cost of applying for 6-7 cards in the past 2 months for pennies in extra rewards will likely be that he'll face a higher mortgage rate which will force him to pay for those rewards many times over. Smart logic, eh?


I'm sorry, KDM, but this post just isn't true.

In the US Bank Cash+ thread, I said explicitly that 85% of my spending was on cell phone (post #24) and not fast food. As you just stated above that I posted that my spending was all from fast food and not another category, you are making a categorically false statement. I said that nowhere in that thread, nor anywhere else.
http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit- ... 6#M1238566

Furthermore, I said explicitly in a separate thread my personal life circumstances had changed quite a bit from when I made my post about seeking a mortgage and that I would not be seeking a mortgage within a year after all. You, in fact, acknowledged that I was not going to be getting a mortgage within a year in post #20, so this is another categorically false statement.

Here is the thread:
http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit- ... 513/page/2

I would ask that you please be truthful in your representations in the future.


You are missing the point. Yes, you eventually said you weren't actually getting a mortgage in the near future, but you still have it on the horizon so applying for a bunch of cards was probably not a smart move. What's done is done, but it seemed you were simply following the crowd and chasing every penny in rewards.

As far as the fast food/Cash+ thing, perhaps I was remembering wrong, but again, the larger point was that if someone is eating out enough that they are getting substantial rewards from a Cash+, an AARP, and buying dining GCs from grocery stores (I know you said before you did that), they perhaps are spending way more on eating out because they are chasing rewards. Maybe that's true for you, maybe it's not.

The overreaching point of the post was that there are many people, which you were an example, who open a bunch of cards to chase tiny extra bits in rewards. And as stated, that's fine if that's what you want to do. I was stating that I think it's silly/unnecessary. Nuances about a mortgage or fast food aside, you still opened a bunch of extra cards for a little bit more in rewards on one thing or another. And I used to do the same thing for awhile until I wised up that it wasn't worthwhile to chase every penny. You are an example of someone who fell into the same pattern, so I was pointing out that it's not worth it for many people. So hopefully instead of getting mad about my post you will reconsider chasing every penny in rewards and focus on other aspects of credit building, too, not JUST rewards. :)


Yeah, uh huh.

I will just say this: accuracy matters, and when you develop a reputation of going out of your way to misrepresent things on a forum (not just here, but also on other forums as well - like, perhaps, behind the scenes in a certain BBR approval thread in PMs), your stay at that forum will not be long-lived. For your sake, I hope that lesson is learned quickly enough on this one to prevent a repeat of what happened to you on myFICO. :cheers:

kdm31091
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby kdm31091 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:42 am

I like this forum better as honesty is permitted unlike myfico where only "congrats" and "+1" will fly. That's the real issue with people getting banned on myfico. They're far too sensitive to people telling it like it is. I have learned a lot after leaving there. The amount that people have to water down their opinions in order to "pass" there is too much, so even when the ban is removed, it's doubtful I will be a regular poster again. I feel that honest opinions should be welcome whether they agree or disagree with an OP, and on myfico, they plainly aren't welcome, as we have seen with many many users not just me over time.

Were there times I stepped over the line? Of course. I take responsibility. But I also know that the moderators are running a biased forum which wants to encourage applying and not much else.

I am glad to see you in the garden here, though, and focusing on your other credit goals.

RewardsHunter17
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby RewardsHunter17 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:50 am

Oh, there's no doubt that what you're saying is true. All I'm saying is that isn't the reason for all bans. :)

kdm31091
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby kdm31091 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:53 am

RewardsHunter17 wrote:Oh, there's no doubt that what you're saying is true. All I'm saying is that isn't the reason for all bans. :)


Right. No doubt there were other factors in my ban. However, I've moved on, and really don't care anymore. I don't fit in with what they want to see in their posters, and that's fine. This forum allows us to discuss cards without all of the BS. My only use for myfico at this point is to peruse it for entertainment and examples of crazy people (not you) doing exactly what they SHOULDN'T to build credit.

In any case, back on topic, gardening is really starting to pay off for me. My AAOA is climbing and today, a couple inquiries just fell off. Much more worthwhile to see things improving than constantly being dinged with new accounts.

RewardsHunter17
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby RewardsHunter17 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:05 am

Indeed. Let's all post honest, accurate information from here on and out and all move on.

I agree about the gardening by the way. It feels nice to pretty much have the cards I want and so the urge to app is diminished.

kdm31091
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby kdm31091 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:10 am

RewardsHunter17 wrote:Indeed. Let's all post honest, accurate information from here on and out and all move on.

I agree about the gardening by the way. It feels nice to pretty much have the cards I want and so the urge to app is diminished.


Right, the urge fades away the longer you wait, coupled with the fact that there really hasn't been anything super compelling released recently (Barclay's did a 1.5% card and FNBO did a 2%, neither of which are unique). It makes it pretty easy to garden when the "new and exciting" options on the market are anything but exciting. (Barclay's is particularly unexciting, IMO, with the 1.5% and $50 threshold, but to each their own).

JonE
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby JonE » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:27 am

I just think it's a better idea to get cards that fall in line with your spending. On a personal level I have 2 category cards, one of which is my daily driver which all spending goes on save for a few smaller bills. And the other I use sparingly. Plus one very useful store card, and two more that will be SD'd. Future needs, probably a general travel card with restaurant benefits (ala CSP) and a gas, groceries card that could also be used for general, everyday spending (EDP with the 30 swipe points bonus). All of those would fit my needs, and wouldn't put me in a position to get in over my head. I could use the EDP as the everyday driver, and rotate other cards monthly or as needed (CSP for travel, Amazon for prime purchases). That's my idea of maximizing rewards.
Current Cards: Chase Freedom, Discover IT
Future: TBD

kdm31091
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Re: December 2015 Garden Club

Postby kdm31091 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:30 am

JonE wrote:I just think it's a better idea to get cards that fall in line with your spending. On a personal level I have 2 category cards, one of which is my daily driver which all spending goes on save for a few smaller bills. And the other I use sparingly. Plus one very useful store card, and two more that will be SD'd. Future needs, probably a general travel card with restaurant benefits (ala CSP) and a gas, groceries card that could also be used for general, everyday spending (EDP with the 30 swipe points bonus). All of those would fit my needs, and wouldn't put me in a position to get in over my head. I could use the EDP as the everyday driver, and rotate other cards monthly or as needed (CSP for travel, Amazon for prime purchases). That's my idea of maximizing rewards.


I think that makes more sense vs having one card for dining, one card for groceries, one card for this, another for that, etc. To a point, that can make sense (f the separate cards offer % benefits over the others), but often it just dilutes one's spend too much when we're talking about an extra 1% on a couple things here and there. I think your plan sounds good.



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