Card/issuer-specific myths

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takeshi
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby takeshi » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:54 am

Vermonster wrote:
CarefulBuilder14 wrote:So where does the truth lie with that one? What balance/payment/utilization behavior other than PIF is Amex comfortable with?


From my experience, they care no more than any other issuer will.

Same here though there are the usual caveats with relying on anecdotal evidence to establish broad trends. I received my CLI's while carrying balances with them but never exceeded 30% and was probably much lower than that at the time.

Many tend to oversimplify and this is yet another example. It's not just the utilization on the specific account that matters but one's entire credit profile as well since the creditor is routinely SP'ing. The rest of my credit profile was in good shape even though I was adding new accounts at the time.

Kevin86475391 wrote:Everything I've ever read on the topic indicates that there IS a limit, they just don't tell you.

Of course there's a limit. No creditor will offer any person infinite credit. In my experience NPSL isn't a big deal. There's a tool to check to see if a large transaction will be approved if one wants that peace of mind. I've never even used it. Still, you have to use what works for you and if charge cards aren't your thing you don't have to use them. They can be useful for preventing spend from impacting revolving utilization which is especially handy for those that are frequently making charges that are quickly reimbursed but not everyone has such a need/want.

People tend to conflate NPSL and charge cards but there are NPSL credit cards as well. However, how they work and factor into revolving utilization is different. CarefulBuilder14 has a recent thread on this in the Visa/Mastercard subforum.

Kevin86475391 wrote:So I'd rather a regular credit card that I COULD carry a balance on if I wanted to without incurring the wrath or disappointment of the issuer.

You can carry a balance on AmEx charge cards. Probably not recommended but it is possible.
https://online.americanexpress.com/myca ... ayovertime

I know what you mean above about charge cards versus credit cards for carrying balances. However, not using a charge card doesn't mean that one is free from the reactions of a creditor when carrying a balance. Exceed what the creditor considers safe revolving utilization on a credit card or cards -- and/or raise other red flags -- and you can certainly face adverse action.


dragon452
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby dragon452 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:53 pm

[quote="Kevin86475391"][quote="CarefulBuilder14"][quote="Vermonster"] I have a World Mastercard and Visa Signature card, which I've heard are inclined to let users go over limit, but I certainly don't plan to test this out.

This statement in itself is incorrect...it is the bank, not the network or type of card that network offers who determines if the "no preset spending limit" feature is offered to a customer. I've had NPSL with my Chase cards long before Signature Visa or World Mastercard were introduced.

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Vattené
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby Vattené » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:51 pm

"Discover's acceptance sucks."
-Vattené
FICO-8:
EX - 827 (4/17) | TU - 812 (4/17)
Primary Cards:
American Express EveryDay - $20,000 (10/14)
Discover it - $23,000 (2/14)
AU on Barclay Sallie Mae - $10,000 (8/15)
plus several store accounts of varying usefulness now

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CarefulBuilder14
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:05 pm

Vattené wrote:"Discover's acceptance sucks."

In 1.5 years of being a customer, I can only think of a few places that didn't take it:
A medical bill (V/MC)
A parking garage (A/V/MC)
My gym (V/MC)
Costco (A)
A bowling alley (V/MC)
Very useful: SchwabPlat, CSP, IHG, Costco (was AA Plat), Freedom, SPG, Prestige (retention)
Somewhat useful: Discover, ED (was EDP), BCE, Hyatt
SD with activity alerts, might close: Arrival

Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold, First Tech, BofA Travel PH, Aviator Red

Vermonster
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby Vermonster » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:50 pm

Vattené wrote:"Discover's acceptance sucks."


I'd say this one is 100% dependent on the area you're in. In general, Discover will be accepted at the important places like restaurants, gas stations, grocery stores, ect. More rural areas with smaller shops tend to favor Visa/MC.
Chase Freedom $9k~~Chase Sapphire Preferred $6.5k~~Amex Blue Cash Preferred $12.4k~~Citi Double Cash $4.7k

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Vattené
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby Vattené » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:21 pm

That's true to a degree, but if you're in the US it's not nearly as bad as many make it out to be. Discover claims they're accepted in over 90% of merchants that take MC/Visa. I live in a remote area myself and - at least here - the acceptance is good enough that it shouldn't even be a factor in selecting a card...unless there is a specific place where you spend a ton and already know it isn't accepted. If you frequently travel internationally, I could understand why it might be a bigger factor.

I don't have statistics on Amex, but just in my experience it is pretty similar to Discover. I notice it constantly with Discover, but I've very rarely seen someone giving advice recommend taking Amex acceptance into consideration.
-Vattené
FICO-8:
EX - 827 (4/17) | TU - 812 (4/17)
Primary Cards:
American Express EveryDay - $20,000 (10/14)
Discover it - $23,000 (2/14)
AU on Barclay Sallie Mae - $10,000 (8/15)
plus several store accounts of varying usefulness now

Kevin86475391
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby Kevin86475391 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:17 pm

Vattené wrote:That's true to a degree, but if you're in the US it's not nearly as bad as many make it out to be. Discover claims they're accepted in over 90% of merchants that take MC/Visa.

I absolutely agree. Although, 90% seems like a really conservative estimate to me. Like CarefulBuilder I can count the number of places I've wanted to use my Discover and couldn't: 3, all restaurants. Perhaps it's happened in other places and I just don't recall because it wasn't a big deal to just use a Visa/Mastercard instead, but definitely only 3 places that I frequent on a regular basis.

Vattené wrote:I don't have statistics on Amex, but just in my experience it is pretty similar to Discover. I notice it constantly with Discover, but I've very rarely seen someone giving advice recommend taking Amex acceptance into consideration.

Really? I'd say my impression is that I hear that piece of advice/concern regarding Amex about as often as with Discover.

Honestly, I had an Amex about 10ish years ago that I've since closed and it seems like I came across places that wouldn't take it much more often than I have with my Discover. It could simply be that it was almost 10 years ago and acceptance (for both most likely) wasn't as wide as it is today. In the past 4 years with Discover it almost never happens though.

One really major thing that WOULD be an issue with Amex that isn't with Discover is that the company I rent from accepts Discover, Visa, and Mastercard, but NOT Amex. I love putting my rent (and utilities and other fixed monthly expenses) on the credit card, getting cashback, and then paying it in full. I'd be ticked if I had an Amex and wanted to use it but couldn't. Although recently I've been using my Citi Double Cash Visa card instead of Discover anyway because the 2% is better than the 1% I'd get on Discover or my other cards. LOL, rent, cable, and electricity never seem to be bonus categories for some reason :ppp

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Vattené
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby Vattené » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:48 pm

Kevin86475391 wrote:I absolutely agree. Although, 90% seems like a really conservative estimate to me. Like CarefulBuilder I can count the number of places I've wanted to use my Discover and couldn't: 3, all restaurants. Perhaps it's happened in other places and I just don't recall because it wasn't a big deal to just use a Visa/Mastercard instead, but definitely only 3 places that I frequent on a regular basis.

I know I've seen that statistic from Discover. Maybe it's just because both the local mom and pop bakery and Walmart count as a merchant? Almost all of my spending is between my Discover and my Amex, so I tend to notice when a place doesn't take one or the other.

Kevin86475391 wrote:Really? I'd say my impression is that I hear that piece of advice/concern regarding Amex about as often as with Discover.

Well, that's just my impression. So I could be wrong. But as long as we're sharing impressions of what people people say about them, my impressions are along the lines of...
  • Discover: I mean yeah they give cash back, but you have to find someone that takes it first.
  • Amex: OMG, American Express is so prestigious and exclusive you simply MUST get one! But get a charge card first. That's what everyone does because they're so easy to get. Also because there's like literally no credit limit. Amex (that's what I call them because I'm so high status) has like four, but the Platinum card is so famous for all the perks it has [that only frequent international travelers will actually use enough to justify a $450 AF] so you might as well just get that one.
I love both, but I have been much more impressed by Discover. I could definitely be biased.

Kevin86475391 wrote:One really major thing that WOULD be an issue with Amex that isn't with Discover is that the company I rent from accepts Discover, Visa, and Mastercard, but NOT Amex. I love putting my rent (and utilities and other fixed monthly expenses) on the credit card, getting cashback, and then paying it in full. I'd be ticked if I had an Amex and wanted to use it but couldn't. Although recently I've been using my Citi Double Cash Visa card instead of Discover anyway because the 2% is better than the 1% I'd get on Discover or my other cards. LOL, rent, cable, and electricity never seem to be bonus categories for some reason :ppp

Jealous I could never use my Discover (or any card) for rent. Or my mortgage. I can put just about everything besides that, loan payments, and utility bills on a card (without any extra fees, that is). You must not have gotten the double-cashback-for-a-year promotion Discover was offering to existing cardmembers. That sucks, because I was able to get in on it and can't wait for that bonus!
-Vattené
FICO-8:
EX - 827 (4/17) | TU - 812 (4/17)
Primary Cards:
American Express EveryDay - $20,000 (10/14)
Discover it - $23,000 (2/14)
AU on Barclay Sallie Mae - $10,000 (8/15)
plus several store accounts of varying usefulness now

Kevin86475391
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby Kevin86475391 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:56 pm

Vattené wrote:Jealous I could never use my Discover (or any card) for rent. Or my mortgage. I can put just about everything besides that, loan payments, and utility bills on a card (without any extra fees, that is). You must not have gotten the double-cashback-for-a-year promotion Discover was offering to existing cardmembers. That sucks, because I was able to get in on it and can't wait for that bonus!

Oh wow, now I am disappointed! I had incorrectly heard that was only being offered to new card members. I didn't realize there was a way for existing customers to get in on the action. Darn, kicking myself now!

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Vattené
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Re: Card/issuer-specific myths

Postby Vattené » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:24 am

I would have though that, too, since that is how they marketed it. It's only from forums that I found out existing cardmembers could call in and get the same promotion starting on their next billing cycle. It might be worth a call to find out for sure, but I have heard they've stopped that now and it is strictly for new accounts.
-Vattené
FICO-8:
EX - 827 (4/17) | TU - 812 (4/17)
Primary Cards:
American Express EveryDay - $20,000 (10/14)
Discover it - $23,000 (2/14)
AU on Barclay Sallie Mae - $10,000 (8/15)
plus several store accounts of varying usefulness now



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