Rant about AF

For just about anything you want to get off your chest about credit cards.
29 posts
AMEXPlatino86
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:51 pm
Location: New York, NY

Rant about AF

Postby AMEXPlatino86 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:46 pm

Something that I'm noticing is kinda driving me up the wall lately. I'm noticing on a certain other site that a lot of the usual people are tapping for cards for these bonuses and what not but all of sudden later they are saying "Oh well the AF is coming up and I don't think that I'll keep it since I can't justify the use of it." But wait you were able to use 50, 60, or even 100,000 points but you can't pay $85 for one year worth of use yet you can do it on your so called vacation that your taking? Holy flying dildos and you wonder why they are either raising the fees or taking away the privileges. Am I the only one that feels this way??? ::drops mic::
Wells Fargo Platinum 2.100 (5/2011-cld 7/12/14)
AmEx Platinum (6/12)
Barclays Apple (6/12)
AMEX Gold Delta (5/13)
Marriott Rewards (7/14)

My credit score :cool:
EQ: unknown
EX: 762
TU: 752


Nixon
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:12 am
Location: Great Southwest

Re: Rant about AF

Postby Nixon » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:24 pm

The bonus is to entice you to try a new product.

You are under zero obligation to keep it.
Image

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3755
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: Rant about AF

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:26 am

In minor cases, I see absolutely nothing wrong with canceling a card after the first year. Unsophisticated credit users can easily get a card and find it's not really that great for them. I only applied for PRG because Amex sent me a nice mailed offer and I thought I might not qualify for the card I really wanted, BCE. I got PRG to build a history with Amex, and I've found enough use to keep it beyond the first year, but I would close it if it no longer made sense and I couldn't "justify" the AF.

Even for sophisticated bonus hunters (or people who just want to feel like high rollers), though, I don't think there's anything very wrong with closing numerous cards to dodge the AFs. The fact is that most issuers don't structure incentives to encourage customers to be loyal over the long run; they structure incentives to encourage jumping around. When issuers make the rules and can easily adjust them, you can't really blame customers for acting in unorthodox ways.

Discover's "double rewards for a year" bonus is a very rational and fair incentive, but is the exception rather than the norm.

Issuers could do the following, but generally don't:

1. Offer reasonable rewards and a reasonable bonus.
2. Keep out the apparent undesirables. Decline people with a history of bonus hunting - either with that same issuer, or people who have a suspicious number of accounts with other issuers closed before the end of the 12th/13th month. A person can't do much bonus hunting/card closing without it becoming obvious on his or her credit report. Some issuers have become more careful about this.
3. Keep nerfing to a minimum.

Instead, issuers usually focus their efforts on opening new accounts, and I expect that nerfing would happen anyway. A card program becomes really profitable when the only people who still have it are the ones who don't pay close attention to their rewards. People who jump ship after getting a bonus generally only accelerate the inevitable.

If closing a card to avoid an AF is bad, then other activities look questionable...

The vast majority of my spending on Sallie Mae is 5% stuff. In a small way, one could argue, I'm abusing the rewards system and encouraging Barclaycard to nerf it. Barclaycard gets about 2% of the transaction and pays me 5%. I only spend on BCE when I'm using an Amex offer.

I put a lot of 10%+ stuff on Discover. I even heard one Discover shareholder complain about the company's margins getting too small. I was only too happy to explain my contribution to that. :D

The point being...although my accounts are staying open and don't look suspicious on a credit report, I'm not using most of them as the issuers intend/hope, and I'm doing my little bit to make the rewards programs unsustainable.
Wallet: Prestige CSP SchwabPlat Freedom It Hyatt SallieMae AAPlat
SD: Arrival BrooksBros BCE ED IHG
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

User avatar
lobbythis
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:53 pm
Location: usa

Re: Rant about AF

Postby lobbythis » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:55 am

AMEXPlatino86 wrote:Something that I'm noticing is kinda driving me up the wall lately. I'm noticing on a certain other site that a lot of the usual people are tapping for cards for these bonuses and what not but all of sudden later they are saying "Oh well the AF is coming up and I don't think that I'll keep it since I can't justify the use of it." But wait you were able to use 50, 60, or even 100,000 points but you can't pay $85 for one year worth of use yet you can do it on your so called vacation that your taking? Holy flying dildos and you wonder why they are either raising the fees or taking away the privileges. Am I the only one that feels this way??? ::drops mic::



You know better than to visit that site.

Anyways, as long as the CC companies allow people to cancel or find other loopholes/ways to avoid fees, cheapskates and people who apply for cards they can't afford will keep doing it. There isn't much else you can do but avoid engaging stupid people as it will only serve to frustrate you like it has now. Just find the forums like this one where the level of logic and intelligence is not so subpar and financial independence and responsibility are actually taken seriously.

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3755
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: Rant about AF

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:10 am

lobbythis wrote:You know better than to visit that site.

Anyways, as long as the CC companies allow people to cancel or find other loopholes/ways to avoid fees, cheapskates and people who apply for cards they can't afford will keep doing it. There isn't much else you can do but avoid engaging stupid people as it will only serve to frustrate you like it has now. Just find the forums like this one where the level of logic and intelligence is not so subpar and financial independence and responsibility are actually taken seriously.

Some of the behavior is pretty bizarre. Some people take the Ritz 140k bonus and convert the entire thing to airline miles.

I mean, Marriott points aren't great, but they usually aren't that bad!
Wallet: Prestige CSP SchwabPlat Freedom It Hyatt SallieMae AAPlat
SD: Arrival BrooksBros BCE ED IHG
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

User avatar
lobbythis
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:53 pm
Location: usa

Re: Rant about AF

Postby lobbythis » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:28 am

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:
lobbythis wrote:You know better than to visit that site.

Anyways, as long as the CC companies allow people to cancel or find other loopholes/ways to avoid fees, cheapskates and people who apply for cards they can't afford will keep doing it. There isn't much else you can do but avoid engaging stupid people as it will only serve to frustrate you like it has now. Just find the forums like this one where the level of logic and intelligence is not so subpar and financial independence and responsibility are actually taken seriously.

Some of the behavior is pretty bizarre. Some people take the Ritz 140k bonus and convert the entire thing to airline miles.

I mean, Marriott points aren't great, but they usually aren't that bad!


Ha, I didn't even know that was possible. How bad is that conversion rate? I have 180,000 and counting, but I'll be tied up for a while so it will just keep growing. We have 24 months to use them so hopefully a nice trip for myself in 2016. I received emails about 1 or 2 new properties that were opened recently.

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3755
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: Rant about AF

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:35 am

lobbythis wrote:Ha, I didn't even know that was possible. How bad is that conversion rate? I have 180,000 and counting, but I'll be tied up for a while so it will just keep growing. We have 24 months to use them so hopefully a nice trip for myself in 2016. I received emails about 1 or 2 new properties that were opened recently.

http://www.marriott.com/rewards/usepoints/morerew.mi

The rates are pretty bad.* 140k still buys a lot of miles, but you could get as many on a $100 AF card with the AF waived for a year.

I have about 16k Marriott Points - just from hotel stays since joining in 2015. I'll probably just use them for an upgrade sometime.

*United doesn't look bad, actually. I don't know if they were transferring to United, but it's not universally a terrible idea for someone who wouldn't actually stay at a Marriott or Ritz.
Wallet: Prestige CSP SchwabPlat Freedom It Hyatt SallieMae AAPlat
SD: Arrival BrooksBros BCE ED IHG
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

AMEXPlatino86
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:51 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Rant about AF

Postby AMEXPlatino86 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:54 am

lobbythis wrote:
AMEXPlatino86 wrote:Something that I'm noticing is kinda driving me up the wall lately. I'm noticing on a certain other site that a lot of the usual people are tapping for cards for these bonuses and what not but all of sudden later they are saying "Oh well the AF is coming up and I don't think that I'll keep it since I can't justify the use of it." But wait you were able to use 50, 60, or even 100,000 points but you can't pay $85 for one year worth of use yet you can do it on your so called vacation that your taking? Holy flying dildos and you wonder why they are either raising the fees or taking away the privileges. Am I the only one that feels this way??? ::drops mic::



You know better than to visit that site.

Anyways, as long as the CC companies allow people to cancel or find other loopholes/ways to avoid fees, cheapskates and people who apply for cards they can't afford will keep doing it. There isn't much else you can do but avoid engaging stupid people as it will only serve to frustrate you like it has now. Just find the forums like this one where the level of logic and intelligence is not so subpar and financial independence and responsibility are actually taken seriously.



I know shame on me. I think you were the only person that understood what I was saying. Not saying people were to be loyal to whatever CCC for whatever reason but a lot of them jump on to that flavor of the month CC and the next thing you know they have 5,6, 10 CC that have AF and all of a sudden they can't afford those annual fees so they start chopping to save money. Don't get me wrong sometimes I wonder am I paying $450 for vanity or am i really getting everything out of my Platinum? Nonetheless I try to use my cards to the fullest and don't mind paying my AF.
Wells Fargo Platinum 2.100 (5/2011-cld 7/12/14)
AmEx Platinum (6/12)
Barclays Apple (6/12)
AMEX Gold Delta (5/13)
Marriott Rewards (7/14)

My credit score :cool:
EQ: unknown
EX: 762
TU: 752

User avatar
lobbythis
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:53 pm
Location: usa

Re: Rant about AF

Postby lobbythis » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:56 pm

AMEXPlatino86 wrote:I know shame on me. I think you were the only person that understood what I was saying. Not saying people were to be loyal to whatever CCC for whatever reason but a lot of them jump on to that flavor of the month CC and the next thing you know they have 5,6, 10 CC that have AF and all of a sudden they can't afford those annual fees so they start chopping to save money. Don't get me wrong sometimes I wonder am I paying $450 for vanity or am i really getting everything out of my Platinum? Nonetheless I try to use my cards to the fullest and don't mind paying my AF.



There are those who legitimately want to cancel because they just realized they aren't going to use it enough. But, the majority over there live a "shopping cart trick" lifestyle. You know your life is a bit twisted when the AF on one card is bigger than the entire credit limit on another. But, those types of people lack all forms of logical thought. They are point chasers easily tricked by simple numbers and slick marketing.

My first big AF cards were Ritz and United. I paid them both the first week they billed me for them. When I got my CSP and PRG, the AF's were waived for the first year and I was already going to pay them. It caught me off guard when I realized I didn't have to pay anything up front. Regardless of the first year being free, I just look at any card with an AF and ask myself is it worth it and could I afford it if it was due immediately? The answer is always yes because I am an adult and have my sh*t together. If I was invited to apply for a Centurion, the $2,500 AF would not even be an issue. But, I honestly wouldn't use it enough to get my $2,500 back at the moment.

For people in their teens to mid-20's, I understand these huge AFs being a serious issue. I am not criticizing those types of people. But, when I see these morons in their 30s, 40s, 50s+...you really need to evaluate the poor choices you have clearly made in life if a few hundred dollars due ONCE per year is going to break your bank roll.

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3755
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: Rant about AF

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:51 pm

I'm confused as to the exact source of frustration here. Is it:
1. Unsophisticated/SCT people who get cards that are in vogue with no clear plan - everything from lousy store cards to premium travel cards.
2. Freeloading, financially secure bonus hunters with a plan.
3. People who take vacations, even with some savings from miles, when they can't afford to.
4. All or some combination of the above.
Wallet: Prestige CSP SchwabPlat Freedom It Hyatt SallieMae AAPlat
SD: Arrival BrooksBros BCE ED IHG
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when



Return to “General Credit Card Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests