Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

For just about anything you want to get off your chest about credit cards.
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MemberSince99
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Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:30 pm

I happened to check the terms and conditions on my Amazon Visa and noticed this:

USA PATRIOT Act: Please note: Federal law requires all financial institutions to obtain, verify, and record information that identifies each person who opens an Account such as your name, address, date of birth, and other information that will allow us to identify you. We may also ask for other identifying documents.

I can understand identifying who you as obviously you want to know who you are extending credit to. That's common sense. However, does anyone with an IQ higher than their age SERIOUSLY believe this has anything at all to do with the great, never-ending "War on Terror"? I mean yeah, gee, I'm sure all those who want to fly airplanes into buildings are just rushing out to open credit card accounts and that's the big tip off.
I see this kind of thing in corporate America every day - someone wants something and to justify it, they say it's "to keep our great nation safe" or some other nice sounding reason that's just ridiculous nonsense.

Is anyone else just kind of overloaded with this kind of thing and just gotten to the point you totally tune it out because it's so stupid? Again I'm not questioning identifying who you extend credit to - I'm saying it's total buffoonery to even imagine that has ANYTHING to do with Saddam or 9/11 or the middle east.

Well I need to go use the restroom now, to keep this great nation safe and secure, and beat the terrorists! Wish me well and that everything comes out ok.


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CarefulBuilder14
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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:11 pm

It is definitely hard to imagine terrorists using credit cards.

I went to a tax law conference a few years ago where one of the main speakers, a former US Treasury official, discussed terror financing (as well as money laundering and tax evasion).

One thing he said is that terrorists definitely try to keep their finances under the radar. They deal in cash when possible and do their deposit/withdrawal banking with members of extended Arab families that generally aren't hostile to Americans, but certainly aren't about to happily share their clients' business with the government. A lot of their dealings are based on trusting other Arabs. If a potential Arab customer wants to do business with a banking family, but that customer lacks a mutual friend with the family, they don't do business. You can imagine how little information they will give to a bunch of non-Arab IRS agents.

It can be difficult to track terrorist dealings through these families because a customer could either be:

A. A terrorist - a small minority
B. A small-time tax dodger - more likely
C. Someone who just doesn't trust the US banking system - also common

That is, of everyone who deals with this particular "shadow banking" system, only a small minority are actually intent on violent crime. Even if you know A is a terrorist, and you know that A is doing business with B, and B is doing business with C, you don't know if B or C are terrorists or just breaking banking laws they don't care about.

Our Treasury department agents are trained to investigate things like mysterious electronic transfers of millions of dollars to the Cayman Islands. But cracking into the small-figure dealings of banking families that have little-to-no paper trail is a lot harder.

To prevent any misunderstandings/angry comments from idiots, I am not saying all terrorists are Arabs, nor that anything more than a tiny, tiny minority of Arabs are terrorists.
Wallet: Prestige CSP SchwabPlat Freedom It Hyatt SallieMae AAPlat
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Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

MemberSince99
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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:24 pm

Understood. I think we all know that arabs have been painted as being heinous fiends, muslims more specifically.

(And yes, I know some of them ARE heinous fiends. So are some Christians, ever hear of "Westboro", or the Catholic molestation scandal? It's not limited to any one religion but that's another topic).

I just think using "national security" as the reason for things it has nothing to do with, is kinda lame. It's WAY over-used and beaten to death. The average person in the US is far more likely to die of cancer or in a car accident than from an act of terrorism. But again I'm going off topic here (not that this is new....) and it makes sense they would want to stay off the radar.

The thing is, now if they are carrying around a wad of cash and the cops pull you over, they can kiss that money good bye as it will be seized in a "civil forfeiture". Before we all cheer about that, please remember they will also do it to us.

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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby Nixon » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:49 pm

Depends where and when. If you are walking around with a few K in your pocket. This isn't something I'd worry about other than personal protection issues like carrying a weapon.
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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:53 pm

Google "civil forfeiture", read the horror stories, and weep.

You don't have to have committed any crime and in fact they are not arresting you or charging you with any crime - they are instead charging and convicting the cash of being gotten through crime, and the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it's not ill-gotten. Just remember, you can't prove a negative, logically.

The cops benefit from taking the cash it's legalized theft. So if the bad guys don't mug you, the cops might. The only real difference between the two is one does it legally, as far as it concerns your wallet.

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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby Nixon » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:57 pm

MemberSince99 wrote:Google "civil forfeiture", read the horror stories, and weep.

You don't have to have committed any crime and in fact they are not arresting you or charging you with any crime - they are instead charging and convicting the cash of being gotten through crime, and the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it's not ill-gotten. Just remember, you can't prove a negative, logically.

The cops benefit from taking the cash it's legalized theft. So if the bad guys don't mug you, the cops might. The only real difference between the two is one does it legally, as far as it concerns your wallet.



"No, I do not consent to a search."
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MemberSince99
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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:06 pm

Nixon wrote:
MemberSince99 wrote:Google "civil forfeiture", read the horror stories, and weep.

You don't have to have committed any crime and in fact they are not arresting you or charging you with any crime - they are instead charging and convicting the cash of being gotten through crime, and the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it's not ill-gotten. Just remember, you can't prove a negative, logically.

The cops benefit from taking the cash it's legalized theft. So if the bad guys don't mug you, the cops might. The only real difference between the two is one does it legally, as far as it concerns your wallet.



"No, I do not consent to a search."


I told the traffic cop that too, when he pulled me over for speeding in 1988. He made me move away from my vehicle, then tried to screen me so that I could not see his fellow officers who were searching my car - but I could see them do it anyway.

So I could be a tough guy or a hero and insist they stop, but all that is going to get me is the living sh1t beaten out of me, and possibly get me shot for "resisting an officer", and it's my word against that of several cops. And I can tell you from personal experience when you go before the judge and that cop is sworn in and he sees that cop testifying and it's his word against the word of some young kid, whatever the cop says is the word of God.

So good luck with that.

MemberSince99
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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:07 pm

MemberSince99 wrote:
Nixon wrote:
MemberSince99 wrote:Google "civil forfeiture", read the horror stories, and weep.

You don't have to have committed any crime and in fact they are not arresting you or charging you with any crime - they are instead charging and convicting the cash of being gotten through crime, and the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it's not ill-gotten. Just remember, you can't prove a negative, logically.

The cops benefit from taking the cash it's legalized theft. So if the bad guys don't mug you, the cops might. The only real difference between the two is one does it legally, as far as it concerns your wallet.



"No, I do not consent to a search."


I told the traffic cop that too, when he pulled me over for speeding in 1988. He made me move away from my vehicle, then tried to screen me so that I could not see his fellow officers who were searching my car - but I could see them do it anyway.

So I could be a tough guy or a hero and insist they stop, but all that is going to get me is the living sh1t beaten out of me, and possibly get me shot for "resisting an officer", arrested and thrown into jail with hard core criminals, and then it's my word against that of several cops. And I can tell you from personal experience when you go before the judge and that cop is sworn in and he sees that cop testifying and it's his word against the word of some young kid, whatever the cop says is the word of God.

So good luck with that.

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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby Nixon » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:33 pm

MemberSince99 wrote:I told the traffic cop that too, when he pulled me over for speeding in 1988. He made me move away from my vehicle, then tried to screen me so that I could not see his fellow officers who were searching my car - but I could see them do it anyway.

So I could be a tough guy or a hero and insist they stop, but all that is going to get me is the living sh1t beaten out of me, and possibly get me shot for "resisting an officer", and it's my word against that of several cops. And I can tell you from personal experience when you go before the judge and that cop is sworn in and he sees that cop testifying and it's his word against the word of some young kid, whatever the cop says is the word of God.

So good luck with that.


Close the windows, Lock the doors first. :)
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Re: Notice when you check the terms of a credit card

Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:09 pm

Nixon wrote:
MemberSince99 wrote:I told the traffic cop that too, when he pulled me over for speeding in 1988. He made me move away from my vehicle, then tried to screen me so that I could not see his fellow officers who were searching my car - but I could see them do it anyway.

So I could be a tough guy or a hero and insist they stop, but all that is going to get me is the living sh1t beaten out of me, and possibly get me shot for "resisting an officer", and it's my word against that of several cops. And I can tell you from personal experience when you go before the judge and that cop is sworn in and he sees that cop testifying and it's his word against the word of some young kid, whatever the cop says is the word of God.

So good luck with that.


Close the windows, Lock the doors first. :)


It's a good point but I was a young kid and didn't realize at the time that would be a good idea to do. I didn't realize they were just going to violate my rights and search my vehicle knowing they would just get away with it because they are cops. I suppose in hindsight I'm lucky they didn't do far worse like they would today - there were no cameras filming things, just my word against theirs. If they had said the sky was pumpkin orange in mid day while the incident happened, well as far as the legal system is concerned, that would have been true.

I don't know how we got onto the cops being thugs which some of them are, though. It's really just the silliness of screaming "terror" to justify everything. But very good advice for the future, Nixon. I will have to remember to do that, should I get pulled over again.

And by the way they didn't find anything of interest to them, but they sure looked. I'm almost a bit surprised they didn't "find" a bag of pot in my car or something, you know how that one works. I just feel lucky that was the extent of what they did.



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