Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

For just about anything you want to get off your chest about credit cards.
13 posts
User avatar
otter
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby otter » Sun May 03, 2015 8:22 pm

Yeah, I know Credit Karma uses Vantage score which, despite what the big three says, nobody uses... but it is still disheartening to log into CK and see my scores at 575. I don't know what gives... my utilization isn't high, no derogs, 100% payment history, almost 5 years avg history. True, my inquiries are around a dozen each, but most are stale (6 months+) and to me, when you think 575, you think of a First Premier cardholder with many missed payments, a few collections, inquiries which would make "fix my credit" and B&T blush, and high utilization. My fico's are all in the 740's, my Amex credit secure scores are at 739, so maybe I just don't do well with the CK/Vantage algorithm. Anyone else have this issue?
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450


User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3757
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sun May 03, 2015 8:54 pm

otter wrote:Yeah, I know Credit Karma uses Vantage score which, despite what the big three says, nobody uses... but it is still disheartening to log into CK and see my scores at 575. I don't know what gives... my utilization isn't high, no derogs, 100% payment history, almost 5 years avg history. True, my inquiries are around a dozen each, but most are stale (6 months+) and to me, when you think 575, you think of a First Premier cardholder with many missed payments, a few collections, inquiries which would make "fix my credit" and B&T blush, and high utilization. My fico's are all in the 740's, my Amex credit secure scores are at 739, so maybe I just don't do well with the CK/Vantage algorithm. Anyone else have this issue?

I've never had weird Vantagescores from CK. They are currently in the 750's. They have taken a hit when a new account reports, but they have never gone below 700. CK does show one EQ inquiry as hard when my actual EQ report shows it as soft. It was from opening a cash (non-margin) Schwab brokerage account.

I have 3 hard TU inquiries, 1 definitely hard EQ inquiry (Discover), and 1 possibly hard EQ inquiry (Schwab).

EDP has not yet reported, so my scores may take a hit soon. It does seem a little unusual now that with 8 cards, my AAoA needs only a month to recover after opening a new account.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

User avatar
otter
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby otter » Sun May 03, 2015 9:21 pm

I've never really understood why banks do a HP when you open an account. Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Schwab have all done this to me, but I've opened other accounts and never had a HP. Had I known Schwab was going to hard pull, I would have applied for margin... years ago, I made the short-selling dream transaction when I short sold defunct TV maker Zenith on margin and they went belly up less than a year later. I think I paid way more in interest on the loan than I did on the stock.
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450

takeshi
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:12 pm
Location: US

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby takeshi » Mon May 04, 2015 8:45 am

otter wrote:YAnybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

I don't look for respect from them or any other monitoring service or score. A score is just an assessment. It cannot respect or disrespect.

otter wrote:but it is still disheartening to log into CK and see my scores at 575. I don't know what gives... my utilization isn't high, no derogs, 100% payment history, almost 5 years avg history. True, my inquiries are around a dozen each, but most are stale (6 months+) and to me, when you think 575, you think of a First Premier cardholder with many missed payments, a few collections, inquiries which would make "fix my credit" and B&T blush, and high utilization. My fico's are all in the 740's

...but that does sound odd. Why are you worried about your VantageScores? Do you know for certain that you have or intend to use a creditor that uses them?
Last edited by takeshi on Mon May 04, 2015 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nixon
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:12 am
Location: Great Southwest

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby Nixon » Mon May 04, 2015 8:52 am

otter wrote:Yeah, I know Credit Karma uses Vantage score which, despite what the big three says, nobody uses... but it is still disheartening to log into CK and see my scores at 575.


CK freakin hates my guts.

FICOs are EX-672, EQ-671, TU-702
CK has me pegged at 620 on both EQ and TU because I'm showing 30+% util on more than one card. Lol....
Image

MemberSince99
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 4913
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 4:35 pm
Location: WI

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby MemberSince99 » Mon May 04, 2015 10:18 am

CK counts your inquiries against your score for a full 2 years, not 1 year like a FICO score. That's one difference I know of (I'm sure there are others).

They rate me as a very poor insurance risk, even though I haven't had a ticket, accident or a claim since 1988 and have high credit scores. It's kind of a joke really. Obviously even the insurance companies don't agree as I'm not on any risk rate or anything. I wouldn't even worry about what they say - no one else seems to care.

A lot of their advice is bad - trying to tell you that 4% utilization is an A while 0% is a C. Dumb. I don't encourage credit card debt that's the road to hell. I encourage using them and getting the rewards, I don't encourage balances that you pay interest on. That's throwing away money.

I don't even use the site anymore.

Nixon
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:12 am
Location: Great Southwest

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby Nixon » Mon May 04, 2015 11:05 am

MemberSince99 wrote:CK counts your inquiries against your score for a full 2 years, not 1 year like a FICO score. That's one difference I know of (I'm sure there are others).

They rate me as a very poor insurance risk, even though I haven't had a ticket, accident or a claim since 1988 and have high credit scores. It's kind of a joke really. Obviously even the insurance companies don't agree as I'm not on any risk rate or anything. I wouldn't even worry about what they say - no one else seems to care.

A lot of their advice is bad - trying to tell you that 4% utilization is an A while 0% is a C. Dumb. I don't encourage credit card debt that's the road to hell. I encourage using them and getting the rewards, I don't encourage balances that you pay interest on. That's throwing away money.

I don't even use the site anymore.


That's just the thing. I have 3 EQ inquiries and 0 TU inquiries... It's the utilization which is all BTs.
Image

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3757
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Mon May 04, 2015 7:23 pm

Nixon wrote:That's just the thing. I have 3 EQ inquiries and 0 TU inquiries... It's the utilization which is all BTs.

I think the new accounts play a big role. Vantagescore seems to be very sensitive to them.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

flan
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:16 pm
Location: chicago

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby flan » Mon May 04, 2015 9:27 pm

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:I've never had weird Vantagescores from CK. They are currently in the 750's. They have taken a hit when a new account reports, but they have never gone below 700. CK does show one EQ inquiry as hard when my actual EQ report shows it as soft. It was from opening a cash (non-margin) Schwab brokerage account.

I have 3 hard TU inquiries, 1 definitely hard EQ inquiry (Discover), and 1 possibly hard EQ inquiry (Schwab).

EDP has not yet reported, so my scores may take a hit soon. It does seem a little unusual now that with 8 cards, my AAoA needs only a month to recover after opening a new account.



CK gets the same data a lender does, so if it's showing up as hard for them, it's probably showing up as hard for everyone else, too. Not that inquiries matter much.

The thing to remember about CK is that their recommendations are nuts. ignore them. And their scoring of elements of credit history are nuts, and at odds with their scores. Ignore them. Actually, just ignore everything but the trend of the score, and the data in the reports.

Also, important to remember about VS: Vantage use more data from the file, track more behavior, do more differentiation on types of account, and claim it's a better predictor of default than FICO. Whether that's true, or not, it's going to score different files, which have the same FICO scores, differently. Someone who does the things that VS thinks are more risk than FICO does will have a lower (perhaps substantially lower) VS score, while someone who does the things VS thinks are less risky will have a higher score (again, maybe dramatically higher) VS score.

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 3757
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Re: Anybody else get no respect from credit Karma?

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Mon May 04, 2015 9:52 pm

flan wrote:CK gets the same data a lender does, so if it's showing up as hard for them, it's probably showing up as hard for everyone else, too. Not that inquiries matter much.

I agree the difference between one inquiry from 3/14 and two inquiries from 3/14 is small. The matter is still a curious one.

I pulled a full report directly from Equifax in 5/14. It shows Discover as hard and Schwab as soft. I have not seen my full EQ report since then. But when CK added the EQ information, it showed Schwab as hard. I have checked the dates and they match - there was only one date when Schwab pulled my credit.

Suggesting...that sometime after 5/14, Schwab's 3/14 pull was changed from soft to hard. I can't imagine how or why that would happen.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when



Return to “General Credit Card Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests