Why no online chip payments?

For just about anything you want to get off your chest about credit cards.
Battery111
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Postby Battery111 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:17 pm

whit wrote:That's interesting, just a few months ago I was talking with a government employee and we kinda laughed and lamented over how security on systems can get so tight these days, like 10 different passwords, one for each different program you log on and they require you to change it ever x weeks, x months, and of course on different time lines..so you can never get away with using the same password for all unless you reset the others ahead of time and even than that means making the password changes a lot faster and kinda defeats the purpose

I didn't see him with his id but maybe it has a chip in it too

I know the military US does have IDs with gold chip, I didn't realize you can buy with the chips and it's just more than an ID--my ID has a chip too (I'm U.S. citizen but borne elsewhere)

This integration may happen sooner than later but not as soon as you'll like. In other countries, there's a pass that they can travel with and use it to also purchase food and stuff (as a payment system) without a mag stripe or chip or pin

There's also apps that pay and order at the restaurant..like gopago if anyone knows of it before Amazon brought it


We can't use our ID's for payment. I'm just drawing a (possibly erroneous) assumption that the technologies in my ID card and those in credit card chips are similar or compatible. I guess at the end of the day I'm just surprised given the amount of online fraud that the CC industry hasn't implemented much in the way of additional security. Verifying a card is physically in the possession of the shopper seems like it would go a long way towards cutting down on fraud. And given the more widespread issuance of chipped cards and consumer availability of card readers it seems like we would be seeing a push in that direction.

However, I could be minimising the technical hurdles towards implementing such a system out of ignorance. Seems like there ought to be something that could be done, but the CC companies have people much smarter than myself likely paid much more than myself to consider such issues.
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Postby flan » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:01 pm

Battery111 wrote:As a government employee we use smart cards for almost everything dealing with a network. As a result I have smart card readers for all of my computers and even mobile devices. Made me wonder. With all of the chip cards being fielded now it seems odd that online retailers aren't accepting payment that way to cut down on fraud. I would think the issuers would give a processing discount for cards processed this way as well. What am I missing?


What's in it for me? I get to use a more complicated, more prone to error payment system, that probably means the merchant can't store my account information to fast checkouts. What do I get in exchange for this? I save the merchant money, do they pass it on to me? Is it enough to matter?

There may be seven people on this forum who say they'd use it, but there aren't that many people who would put up with massive inconvience to save someone else money.

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Postby Battery111 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:40 pm

flan wrote:What's in it for me? I get to use a more complicated, more prone to error payment system, that probably means the merchant can't store my account information to fast checkouts. What do I get in exchange for this? I save the merchant money, do they pass it on to me? Is it enough to matter?

There may be seven people on this forum who say they'd use it, but there aren't that many people who would put up with massive inconvience to save someone else money.


Valid point. This is why I ask.
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Postby takeshi » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:35 am

Battery111 wrote:What am I missing?

Battery111 wrote:Of course this would assume a chip and pin configuration.

For one thing, most EMV cards in the US are being issued as chip & signature.

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Postby Mitch » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:34 pm

Terry wrote: Online transactions were approved from Amex only if the physical card was attached to the computer used to place the order. That practice was around for only a few years then discontinued. Hopefully one day, card issuers will revive this secure online process to protect both the consumer and the issuer.


I'd find this insanely inconvenient. Why?

Well. If your apart of my generation, you typically live off your smartphone. We're lucky sometimes if we even touch our laptops once a day. The problem with this is... with me, and I'm assuming, other people my age... a lot of our transactions are being placed through mobile devices.

This means, I'd have to physically find some sort of magic attachment (what a pain it'd be to carry, separate from my wallet) and then plug it into my smartphone, and hope it works the very first time.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea. But, it needs to be worked on. I certainly wouldn't enjoy the process, and I think the same could be said for a lot of consumers.
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Postby Mitch » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:38 pm

golf.ninja wrote:I know Visa had their visa verified program and I recall certain cards offering one time tokens for online purchases. But never really saw them take hold...


My bank of america, debit card, prompts me to sign up for that "verify" thing. I always ignore it. I actually did try to signup for it once, and it wouldn't accept my personal information. It told me, to call bank of america, and declined my purchase. After that... I never touched it again.
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Postby Cre » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:06 am

Mitch wrote:I'd find this insanely inconvenient. Why?

Well. If your apart of my generation, you typically live off your smartphone. We're lucky sometimes if we even touch our laptops once a day. The problem with this is... with me, and I'm assuming, other people my age... a lot of our transactions are being placed through mobile devices.

This means, I'd have to physically find some sort of magic attachment (what a pain it'd be to carry, separate from my wallet) and then plug it into my smartphone, and hope it works the very first time.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea. But, it needs to be worked on. I certainly wouldn't enjoy the process, and I think the same could be said for a lot of consumers.



Isn't this what Apple Pay is supposed to do? Where the "magic attachment" you'd have to carry, separate from your wallet, to plug into your smartphone, is your fingerprint?

Not too terribly inconvenient to carry, as it always seems to stick to the fingertips anyway, without having to think about it. I thought AmEx, Visa, and MC all got on board with Apple Pay?

I know a handful of merchants led by Walmart (RiteAide, CVS, Target) boycotted Apple Pay due to a contractual agreement with Merchants Customer Exchange's plan to do an endrun around swipe fees with a new application called Current C. But I don't think Current C will last, because Current C was designed from the ground up to serve the needs of the merchant, to save the merchant fees. On the other hand, Apple Pay was designed from ground up for the security and convenience of consumers... a critical mass of Apple's customers.

Wouldn't Apple Pay satisfy the needs of your growing "glow face" generation?
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Postby Mitch » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:29 am

Cre wrote:Isn't this what Apple Pay is supposed to do? Where the "magic attachment" you'd have to carry, separate from your wallet, to plug into your smartphone, is your fingerprint?


I refuse to setup apple pay. There's already been enough evidence of "apps" that can fake a users fingerprint, allowing access into your cards.

Plus, I just got a credit card. I'm not gonna let some hacker, use it before I can :P ;)

You know, what I could see happening is, like, little notifications, every time you make a purchase online "Yes, I approve this" "No, Block my Card" from your card issuers mobile app. I could see that making a big stint in fraud.. without any inconvenience to the end user.
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Postby Vattené » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:16 pm

Cre wrote:your growing "glow face" generation?


Such derogatory slurs are uncalled for. We prefer to be called Technophilic Millennial Americans.

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Postby yfan » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:11 pm

Battery111 wrote:Yet if someone has my ID card they can't log on as me on a government network because they don't have my pin and it's not indicated anywhere on the card. Of course this would assume a chip and pin configuration.

Except that in case of your ID, you are logging into a closed network, where the only people that need to know who you are is he system you are logging into and yourself. With online shopping, there are at least four parties involved - the card processor, the card issuer, the purchaser and the merchant. Make that five if you issue an online mall to get cashback/points. Because you need to be able to use your credit card at places that did not issue your credit card (unlike your government ID), the system needs to be a little more open than pure one-way authentication. You say your zip is easy to guess, I say there are only 10,000 combinations for 4 digits, which takes substantially less than a half a nanosecond for a computer to go through (without even going into the question of how your waitress would even know you aren't from out of town just by looking at your credit card). So yes, I stand by my assessment that when it comes to online shopping, chip and pin (or chip and anything else) along with a reader that most people don't own both doesn't have merit or any added actual security.



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