Denied for balance transfer 7 times!?!

Discuss anything related to interest rates & fees, like balance transfer offers, low rate cards, annual fees, etc.
10 posts
musicisstopping
Green Member
Green Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:26 am
Location: Santa Monica

Denied for balance transfer 7 times!?!

Postby musicisstopping » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:44 am

Long time reader, first time poster.

Here's the situation: since I was laid-off four years ago, I've been living off my savings and investment income; paying the minimum on my $20K credit card balance.

Since my credit is very good, I haven't paid a cent in interest on that debt, since I've qualified for 0% offers throughout.

However, with $3K of that due in two weeks, I've been applying for 0% offer cards, and contacted my existing issuers for promotions; but haven't been accepted.

I don't have $3K, and pay interest only when absolutely necessary, so how can I roll this debt over into another 0% offer?

More worrying, the other $17K loses its 0% in July-August. And if I'm getting denied now--and then adding seven inquiries!--how can I get approved then?

Here's my situation:

TransRisk 772 (so I guess Fico 710-730?)

Debt: $20K
Total Credit Line: $50K
Total Trades: 14
Avg Age 4.5
Inquiries 5

My current debt is spread over four cards:
Two Capital One, First National Omaha, Juniper.

I contacted these existing issuers for offers, and was rebuffed:
Chase, Citi, Discover, US Bank.

I applied, and was denied from:
AmEx, Citi, B of A, Wells Fargo, Chase, Capital One.

What can I do?

If I have to start paying interest, and continue to make minimum-only payments, I'd be forced to sell off my investments. And I sell my investments, I won't make any money to live day-to-day. The music can't be stopping for me, eh?

Any recommendations, advice, etc. greatly appreciated. "Told you so!" comments, not so much.

Cheers,
RF


User avatar
PlatinumAMEX94
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:21 am
Location: Denver

Postby PlatinumAMEX94 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:21 pm

RF, unfortunately it sounds like you got pegged as a "rate surfer".

Check out this thread: http://creditcardforum.com/finance-charges-apr-compare/22-secrets-negotiating-credit-card-interest-rates.html

Due to the fact that none of the banks have made any money off of you, other than balance transfer fees, they are all unwilling to budge on any balance transfer offers.

The only thing that you can do that will get you off that list is to pay off that balance and end the electronic paper trail. The best way to do that since you cannot get your own balance transfer, is to have your spouse or trusted love one, who has perfect credit add you as an authorized user to their account. Have that person request the balance transfer sent as a check and not sending it to your 4 banks. Keep it on that one card for at least 2 years, and if you have to balance transfer again in the 2 years, have one of your 4 banks issue you a personal check as well. At this point, you won't get any additional lines of credit or credit line increases, and now you will need to wait another 2 years for all those inquiries to drop off.
American Express Platinum Personal, Member since 94
Chase United Explorer - Visa Signature
Chase Sapphire Preferred
American Express Business Simply Cash

American Express Costco Business, American Express Platinum Business
Bank of America 10k, Capital One Venture World MasterCard 7.5k, Fidelity Visa Signature 10k
Citibank ThankYou Premier World MasterCard - Card Member since 91, 25k
Discover 10k Member since 91, Wells Fargo Personal & Business Visa Signature
USAA World MasterCard 12k, Chase Slate Exclusives Visa 5k

Lifelock member, USAA credit monitoring, Security Freezes E/E/TU, 800+

musicisstopping
Green Member
Green Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:26 am
Location: Santa Monica

Postby musicisstopping » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:29 am

Thank you for the feedback and negotiating strategy.

Couple quick follow-ups:

1) I reckon they just spot the pattern in how I move the debt around. Do they notate my account as a "rate surfer?" Is this a label I'll be stuck with for a while?

2) From the denial letter from Citi, it included my FICO score: 647. I know TransRisk is a FAKO, but I thought it generally approximated. But 130 points delta?!? Had I known my FICO was low, I never would have applied. From reading this board, I thought at most my FICO would be 70 less than the Transrisk, so 700 from 770. But my score is terrible!

3) I know this forum isn't for credit scores, but I don't understand how my score is so low.
[INDENT] a) In ten years, never missed a single payment, overlimit, etc.
b) Utilization is high--40%--but not crazy ($20K of $50K). That said, of the four I have transferred to, all are near their limit.
c) I have 14 open accounts, and 42 total are listed on my report (dating back 20 years).
d) I have 20 years credit history, though average age is 4.5
e) I have five inquiries--high, but again, not an F
[/INDENT] 4) This time last year, I had $35K debt on $120 available. And transferred no problem. Has transferring tightened? Or I am just in denial that I have a D+ credit score...and thinking for years it was an A-.

Cheers,
RF

User avatar
PlatinumAMEX94
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:21 am
Location: Denver

Postby PlatinumAMEX94 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:24 pm

1) You are labeled that until your balances get paid off. Sorry, hard fact of life. Nothing you can do about it. Banks have software that track your balances and they know where they go, and when they come back. You have to end the electronic paper trail.

2) Citibank gave you a true FICO score. More than likely it came from Experian. 647 is average, not terrible.

3) Your score is low due to higher utilization. The only way to realistically get your score up is to pay if off. You average account age is holding back your score. A lot of people don't hit the 800 mark until their accounts are at least 18-20 years of age.

4) 35/120= 29% utilization. In 1 year you lowered your debt but increased your utilization. Where did that other 70K of available credit go?

Class A credit: 800-850
Class B credit: 700-799
Class C credit: 600-699
Class D credit: 500-599
Class F credit: 499 - 300

You don't have D credit, you have C credit, which is average, and still viewed as a potential financial risk. In order to get those balance transfers you need to make substantial payments (more than the minimum) on your existing accounts, which will at some point flag your account for balance transfer offers. Many times when people pay just the minimums it is an indication that things are not so good financially, and lenders are reluctant to extend credit when they see this. In theory, if someone has a good job and is making a lot of money, they are more likely to make hefty payments to make a dent in the debt load. Making ONLY minimum payments is reported on your credit report, and is usually in big bold numbers/letters on your customer account. (Usually the rep will first look to see if your account is current, how much you owe, and how much you pay, and of course your credit score.) I was told at a very young age to NEVER make the minimum payment ... ALWAYS pay at least $10 or more. In the long run, it will help with credit line increases, balance transfers, and so on.
American Express Platinum Personal, Member since 94
Chase United Explorer - Visa Signature
Chase Sapphire Preferred
American Express Business Simply Cash

American Express Costco Business, American Express Platinum Business
Bank of America 10k, Capital One Venture World MasterCard 7.5k, Fidelity Visa Signature 10k
Citibank ThankYou Premier World MasterCard - Card Member since 91, 25k
Discover 10k Member since 91, Wells Fargo Personal & Business Visa Signature
USAA World MasterCard 12k, Chase Slate Exclusives Visa 5k

Lifelock member, USAA credit monitoring, Security Freezes E/E/TU, 800+

musicisstopping
Green Member
Green Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:26 am
Location: Santa Monica

Postby musicisstopping » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:07 am

Thanks for your detailed reply. Much appreciated.

Couple points:

1) You were correct--they supplied my Experian score, not my FICO. That said, I'd never seen a score before on a denial letter--is that common now?

2) Once I reached $35K debt on $120K available, creditors started slashing my credit lines. It cascaded--one would do it, which would make my score worse (though higher utilization rate), trigger another cut, which led to another cut, etc.

So I went from $135K available to $50K in a matter of months.

3) When I attempted to get new credit, I usually barnstorm the system; applying for six or eight cards at the same time. My logic is, once another company realizes I'm trying for credit, they will be more likely to deny me; so I apply for all simultaneously, banking on that they won't realize what I'm doing.

4) This has been important for me, since I'd need to transfer $10K at a time, and it may take two transfer offers to cover this.

5) A side benefit of this is when I'd receive balance transfer amounts greater than the debt I had to cover, and I'd "transfer" this excess credit line into cash (then withdrawal this excess cash, and invest it, having to only cover the 3% transfer fee).

For instance, if I had $5K debt with the zero-percent period expiring, I'd transfer $10K to that account (from two separate new $5K balance transfer offers), then call the creditor, say I made a mistake and ask for the credit balance as a check. Is this legal, by the way?

User avatar
PlatinumAMEX94
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:21 am
Location: Denver

Postby PlatinumAMEX94 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:15 pm

musicisstopping wrote:
When I attempted to get new credit, I usually barnstorm the system; applying for six or eight cards at the same time. My logic is, once another company realizes I'm trying for credit, they will be more likely to deny me; so I apply for all simultaneously, banking on that they won't realize what I'm doing.


I honestly don't know about the credit score in denial letters. It has been ages since I have been denied credit. When I was young my denial reasons included: no credit file, insufficient credit file, credit file too new, number of payments too new. I honestly have never had a credit decision letter that included an actual score. So that may be something new that has started.

The system knows what you are doing. Trust me, their software is smarter than you are. Those credit inquiries show up faster in your credit file than you think. When you have more than average, then you will immediately get disqualified, with the reason "too many inquiries".

And last I checked, you can have a bank do a direct deposit to you as a cash advance. You are just doing it the back door way so you get a 0% cash advance. I would advise on caution doing this too often. If you got pegged as a rate surfer, imagine what they call you when they find out you are cheating them out of a cash advance APR. Most cash advances are around 24% or higher. Balance transfers are usually 0% or 1.9%.
American Express Platinum Personal, Member since 94
Chase United Explorer - Visa Signature
Chase Sapphire Preferred
American Express Business Simply Cash

American Express Costco Business, American Express Platinum Business
Bank of America 10k, Capital One Venture World MasterCard 7.5k, Fidelity Visa Signature 10k
Citibank ThankYou Premier World MasterCard - Card Member since 91, 25k
Discover 10k Member since 91, Wells Fargo Personal & Business Visa Signature
USAA World MasterCard 12k, Chase Slate Exclusives Visa 5k

Lifelock member, USAA credit monitoring, Security Freezes E/E/TU, 800+

musicisstopping
Green Member
Green Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:26 am
Location: Santa Monica

Postby musicisstopping » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:20 am

I just found out, through my US Bank credit card, that my Experian Plus score is 726. That means,

Experian Plus: 726
Experian: 647
TransRisk 772

I wish the FAKO's were close to my real score!

JCarter
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:40 pm
Location: Virginia

Postby JCarter » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:29 am

Why don't you buy all (3) reports, and your FICO score as well? Then try to call around and ask for a manual review of your denial?

Sometimes you can manage to get a denial overturned by a friendly underwriter/actuary.

musicisstopping
Green Member
Green Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:26 am
Location: Santa Monica

Postby musicisstopping » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:38 am

If I buy the reports, I'm out $30. And I have already been denied everywhere, so I don't know if just having my score will lead to a manual override.

Interesting, Citi has offered me a 0% offer, but last year they lowered my limit from $10,000 to $500!?! So I can only transfer $500 for 0% for 15 months.

DavidNY
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: New York

Postby DavidNY » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:18 pm




Return to “Finance Charges & APR Compare”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest