Discover cards with Chip & PIN!!!

All about Discover & Diners Club - talk about their credit card deals such as the More, Miles, Escape, and others.
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MB131174
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Discover cards with Chip & PIN!!!

Postby MB131174 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:19 pm

I was just advised by Discover that in December they will offer Chip & PIN. I asked if it would be PIN or Siggy & the nice lady said it would be PIN.
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yfan
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Postby yfan » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:34 pm

If this is true, it's good news for Europe/Asia travelers. Although I am content with (in fact, maybe even prefer) Chip and Signature, I'll memorize a PIN for this card if I have to.

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Postby flan » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:30 am

yfan wrote:If this is true, it's good news for Europe/Asia travelers. Although I am content with (in fact, maybe even prefer) Chip and Signature, I'll memorize a PIN for this card if I have to.


I won't. I have no plans on ever using a card in the US that makes me use a pin at a chip and sig terminal. It makes my life harder and makes lines slower for no good reason. The chip is enough to keep card cloning hard. PIN gets you nothing in added security. unauthorized use of stolen cards is very small compared to cloned cards (and just stolen numbers used for phone/internet transactions). The first time I'm stuck behind some moron who can't figure out how to punch his pin for five minutes the lost time has cost me my share of that type of fraud for the next five years. (I was behind such a moron at the grocery store the other day. It took him a lot longer than five minutes, five minutes from when I started timing, which was after the second or third time he'd pressed the wrong buttons.)

What makes pin even more annoying is that there is no way to change the pin on the cryptosystems that most cards have. So you're stuck with a number that you didn't generate, and which is potentially known to others. Of course, discover is likely to use online pin auth, which lets you change the pin, but which won't work in offline pin terminals (like the gas pumps and ticket booths that everyone complains about), so you'll get nothing for your inconvenience.

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Postby luvbullmarkets » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:32 pm

Did the CSR provide any specific date in December?

I will make the call first week of December and request for this card.
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Postby PlyrStar93 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:16 pm

The most recent communication between Discover and me indicates they are "working hard" so we can get chip cards "by December of this year". No specific date though.

When the EMV chip cards for them become available I will also request immediately.
Citi Forward Visa $5000 10/2012 | American Express Blue Cash Everyday $8000 2/2014 | Discover it $7000 5/2014
Chase Freedom Visa Signature $7000 6/2014 | Citi ThankYou Premier Visa Signature $5000 1/2015
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Postby yfan » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:55 pm

flan wrote:What makes pin even more annoying is that there is no way to change the pin on the cryptosystems that most cards have. So you're stuck with a number that you didn't generate, and which is potentially known to others. Of course, discover is likely to use online pin auth, which lets you change the pin, but which won't work in offline pin terminals (like the gas pumps and ticket booths that everyone complains about), so you'll get nothing for your inconvenience.

This is news to me. If people can't change their own PIN, then how can someone use multiple cards? It's not practical to expect someone to remember 12 different PINs!

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Postby lobbythis » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:56 pm

CapOne is issuing EMV cards now as well. But, just like Discover, when I called and asked them when I can get mine they just say there is no specific time frame. I'll know I have it when it shows up in the mail. So, they certainly aren't rushing. I think it's more of calm before the storm, meaning creditors are just letting everyone know they will get them but no set time frame or guarantee exactly when other than that 2015 deadline in a year or so.

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Postby MB131174 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:31 pm

I do not understand all the hate against using a PIN. I've used both Chip & PIN and Chip & Signature, and I can attest first hand that PIN is way faster. PIN cards validate quicker in the systems it seems. Plus, a PIN is faster to enter than signing a name, especially for those of us with long last names. Also, signatures can be forged, a PIN cannot be forged. If you're too inept or lazy to remember FOUR digits, you should be using cash. Also, at least with my Diners Club card, it IS possible to change the PIN. You just have to do it at a Chip & PIN enabled ATM. PIN > Siggy. As far as given dates - "sometime in December 2014" was all Discover said. My money is on January or February 2015. We all know how these things go. Just like we should've been able to convert AmEx BCE to the ED card months ago and still hasn't happened. (I hate that abbreviation. Makes it sound like the card needs a certain blue pill.)
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Postby yfan » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:34 pm

MB131174 wrote:I do not understand all the hate against using a PIN. I've used both Chip & PIN and Chip & Signature, and I can attest first hand that PIN is way faster. PIN cards validate quicker in the systems it seems. Plus, a PIN is faster to enter than signing a name, especially for those of us with long last names. Also, signatures can be forged, a PIN cannot be forged. If you're too inept or lazy to remember FOUR digits, you should be using cash. Also, at least with my Diners Club card, it IS possible to change the PIN. You just have to do it at a Chip & PIN enabled ATM. PIN > Siggy.

First, having to change the PIN at an ATM machine is inconvenient. Why can't it be changed online? Why can't they allow you to change it it using the former PIN, card info, and a form of identification (maybe pre-determined questions)? Even if I can find an ATM, will any ATM do or do I need to find an ATM for the issuer specific bank? I can see this causing a lot of headaches.

I would also dispute the idea that PIN is necessarily more secure than Signature. Pointing to an advantage of the PIN, people often say a signature is easy to forge or that the retail clerk doesn't pay enough attention to match the signatures. True enough, but a similar vulnerability exists for PIN cards. For sake of convenience, a lot of people will choose - if they are allowed to choose - PINs that are easy to guess - like 1234, which will make some card vulnerable. You can say if someone is dumb enough not to complicate and secure their PIN, they deserve the headache; I can say if the merchant doesn't properly verify the signature, they deserve to pay the price in terms of fraud responsibility.

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Postby flan » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:37 pm

MB131174 wrote:I do not understand all the hate against using a PIN. I've used both Chip & PIN and Chip & Signature, and I can attest first hand that PIN is way faster. PIN cards validate quicker in the systems it seems. Plus, a PIN is faster to enter than signing a name, especially for those of us with long last names. Also, signatures can be forged, a PIN cannot be forged. If you're too inept or lazy to remember FOUR digits, you should be using cash.


Four digits per PIN, times how many cards? Also, the fraud data doesn't really show that pin is any better than signature. Remember, the only fraud a pin protects against is lost/stolen card used at physical reader. That's a very small fraction of fraud, and what pin does is make it somewhat less common, but increases the amounts involved. (and it tends to increase the profitability of the fraud, as instead of getting goods that have to be sold at discount, the criminal can just get cash out of an ATM.)

I get nothing by having to use a pin, except inconvenience. It's not just that I have remember a number associated with each card. It's that I have to deal with other people who can't figure out how to do this.



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