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  1. #1
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    Default Better than robbing a bank....!

    So....
    To continue the saga first mentioned in my post titled " I was held captive and forced to put purchases on my card"....a few things are now very apparent in the credit card, or at least, the Chase Visa credit card world, so here goes....

    #1. The merchant is always right...or mostly is.
    If the dispute becomes their word against yours, they will just about always win. Even though, in my case, you have been a cardholder for over 24 years, having charged over 250k, and have never filed a chargeback or dispute before. The whole "chargeback" option for cardholders is largely to provide them with a false sense of security.

    #2. It's WAAAAY better to "lose" your card, than be honest and state you still have it.
    Especially if the merchant produces a signed receipt, even if the signature was signed under duress.
    And what's with the "security" of a signature anyway...if anyone with a cellphone camera can copy it?

    #3. They care little about any "story" you might tell about what may have occurred.
    They mainly care about 2 things.....were you there?....did you sign it? Anything else really doesn't matter. Signed under duress? We don't care!

    #4. They seem to have little interest in "policing" who is allowed to act as a merchant in terms of running charges through the Visa card system.
    At no time was I asked to provide any info that might help them reign in the type of merchant/crime syndicate that took me for just under 5K. They....Visa and the issuing banks....get paid either way.

    #5. They will lie to you if it suits them.
    In my case, I called less than 3 hours after the fraud took place, and was told by a Chase representative that the "merchant" had removed the charge, and it wouldn't be showing up on my statement. I was asked if I still wanted to file a dispute, and I told the representative yes, just to be sure. When the charge reappeared a month later on my statement, and I mentioned the merchant "reversal", I was told I had "missunderstood", and the charge was now back in place. Since Chase states that calls to them are recorded, I asked them to check their recordings.....they just hemmed and hawed and never went back to see what was actually said to me.

    #6. Be careful what you tell them...they will use it against you.
    I sent them a very detailed letter telling them what actually happened, to the best of my recollection, telling them how I was threatened and coerced into signing the fraudulent "receipt". They quoted back to me the parts about the fact that I went there "willingly", and signed the receipt once it was presented....the only parts they really cared about.

    #7. Did you file a police report?
    Good luck with this in China, where my "event" took place. Even the locals don't trust the Shanghai police. Don't believe me....do a web search...you'll see....I did stop in at the People's Park tourist police station, and all they offered was to have one of their officers walk me back into the bar that robbed me to help me "work things out". Not likely!

    #8. They don't care what you bought.
    I asked if they could tell me exactly what I purchased. They said it didn't matter.....the purchased items or services section can be blank for all they care, at least least in a "cardmember present" type transaction.

    #9. They are Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
    They make the final "determination" who wins the dispute, knowing full well that to try and find a legal remedy via the court system would cost more than it's worth ( although I would like to hear if others have succeeded with a claim like mine doing this! )

    #10. They really don't care if they screw you.
    They have millions of "happy" cardholders...happy until something goes wrong as has occurred in my case. At any given time, I'm sure the number of disputes is rather small, so why should they care, the money still keeps rolling in!

    That's my story...so be careful out there!

    Travelbug.
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  2. #2
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    Default

    On the other hand you learned an important lesson - don't use credit cards in questionable places.

    I've done a couple of disputes in my life and I have won them both. One was an online merchant in China and the bank involved was Chase. They do not always side with the merchant.
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  3. #3
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    Default

    You assume there's a way to know when a place is "questionable" beforehand. Not always the case, and not the case here.
    Online, mailorder or "cardholder not present" cases are generally handled differently by the card issuers than "cardholder present" cases.
    Not always, but often......they can always invoke the "100 miles or home state" rule.

    Thanks,

    Travelbug

    Quote Originally Posted by DoingHomework View Post
    On the other hand you learned an important lesson - don't use credit cards in questionable places.

    I've done a couple of disputes in my life and I have won them both. One was an online merchant in China and the bank involved was Chase. They do not always side with the merchant.
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    If you want to complain, tell your story to the press, CFPB, FTC, etc. Ranting here isn't going to help you in anyway.

    Even filing a civil lawsuit against Chase will get you somewhere.
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  5. #5
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    But telling my story here is valuable to others, correct?
    You obviously find value here......why else are you visiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post
    If you want to complain, tell your story to the press, CFPB, FTC, etc. Ranting here isn't going to help you in anyway.

    Even filing a civil lawsuit against Chase will get you somewhere.
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  6. #6
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    Default

    Without knowing the exact details of the situation, this is scary.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by travelbug View Post
    But telling my story here is valuable to others, correct?
    You obviously find value here......why else are you visiting?
    That is very true. I'm sorry to hear about your horrible experience. I personally do find value in hearing about other peoples experiences when it comes to credit card cases. Thank you for sharing your experience and opinions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    That is very true. I'm sorry to hear about your horrible experience. I personally do find value in hearing about other peoples experiences when it comes to credit card cases. Thank you for sharing your experience and opinions.
    +1.

    Thank you for posting, travelbug. Some people may not find your post useful, but I do. I don't think your post was a complaint, but useful advice. I travel (haven't been to the People's Republic of China yet, but probably will in the future), so I'll keep your experience in mind. Thanks!
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    That is very true. I'm sorry to hear about your horrible experience. I personally do find value in hearing about other peoples experiences when it comes to credit card cases. Thank you for sharing your experience and opinions.
    +2

    As I travel a few times a year, and plan on doing more international travel in the next few years, I'm glad I read your story, although I'm really sorry this happened to you. Hopefully others can learn from this. Thanks for sharing. I'm really surprised Chase wasn't very helpful.
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  10. #10
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    I think his point is you are told how "protected" you are from fraud. But when it gets into gray areas like this, he's right, they may well simply look at protecting themselves from the cost involved here.

    Granted it's difficult for Chase to establish the facts of the case. But haven't they ever heard the term "Shanghai'd" before?
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