Get credit card fraud help: For victims of credit card fraud and identity theft, and those that can help.
17 posts
rockyrock
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Postby rockyrock » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:22 pm

flan wrote:Nonsense. Simply untrue. EMV cards and terminals negotiate what the acceptable authentication method is. A card can offer to do C+S or C+P, or both. If it does both, it an prefer one, but do the other if the terminal insists. Terminals have the same options. There are additional complications, a card can say "C&S is fine, except if the transaction is over $1000, C&P is required". or "C&S is fine, but every 12th transaction requires a pin". Terminals can do much of that, too.

The US won't get c&P by default, for the really good reason that it's slow, and no one will put up with it, because there is no upside. But that doesn't mean US banks won't issue cards capable of it. They're mostly not right now because there's no demand for it, and the cost differential is pretty high (several dollars a card, I'm told.). But the cost differential will go down with volume, and demand.


My issue isn't with the technology, it's with the US banks choosing the C&Sig model over the widely accepted and adopted C&PIN model.

While traveling in Europe last spring I was unable to utilize C & Sig. Every automated machine (transportation, vending, etc.) I tried to use required a PIN once it identified the onboard chip. If I inserted a card without a chip there was no issue. It forced me to use a card without a chip in order to make a purchase. Thanks to this I missed out on thousands of bonus UR points.

Likewise at retailers when I handed them the card they saw the chip and wondered why I didn't just use the machine, so they proceeded to insert it in their machine and expect me to key in my PIN; when I was unable to do this they had to swipe the card...yada, yada, yada.

My experience has also been that self inserting my card into a machine and entering my PIN is way faster than inserting and signing. I do have one card issued by USAA that is C&PIN and it is way more convenient to use in all scenarios. The downside is it is a card I prefer not to use as an everyday card and the rewards aren't as valuable.

My experiences, YMMV.
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UPS Gregg
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Postby UPS Gregg » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:25 pm

I just received my Marriott Rewards card today. It has the chip on it.
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augiedog
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Postby augiedog » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:26 pm

When the US finally does make the leap to Chip & Sig, I'm sure foreign credit card terminals will have to be upgraded to accept these signature cards. I believe banks would not implement PIN systems as anyone who has the card and enters the correct PIN is making an "authorized purchase," whereas if they use a signature based system, fraud could be proven by identifying a false signature. Your signature also serves as a contractual agreement with your credit card to agree that you will pay off balanced for the items you're purchasing.
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Indymac
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Postby Indymac » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:01 pm

I think the US banks want to go Chip & Signature not because they think it would be too much change, but because it would be too many PINs for consumers to remember. Some posters on here have 10+ CCs, are they gonna remember the PIN for each and every card?

From a consumer perspective, Pin vs Signature has more to due with international convenience than fraud since you aren't liable for fraudulant charges anyway.

Reclusive46
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Postby Reclusive46 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:20 pm

Indymac wrote:I think the US banks want to go Chip & Signature not because they think it would be too much change, but because it would be too many PINs for consumers to remember. Some posters on here have 10+ CCs, are they gonna remember the PIN for each and every card?


You don't have to have a different PIN for every card, just use the same PIN for each card. If the US uses online PIN (where pin is checked against banks systems) you could just change your PIN online.
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websteth
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Postby websteth » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:15 am

Reclusive46 wrote:You don't have to have a different PIN for every card, just use the same PIN for each card. If the US uses online PIN (where pin is checked against banks systems) you could just change your PIN online.


After talking to several friends in the UK when I was there earlier this month, most said that they can change their PIN online. They said it was only when it first rolled out that they couldn't. I say bring it on. It can't happen soon enough.
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thom02099
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Postby thom02099 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:05 pm

Chip and Pin in reality is no different than what we in the USA do with our debit cards. We SWIPE rather than INSERT, but we input a PIN to complete the transaction. The argument that it's slow and most won't put up with it, has limited merit. MANY Americans use debit cards daily, probably as much as credit cards (LOTS of folks who don't frequent credit card forums HATE credit cards!). I asked that very question on a social media website in a poll format, and the respondents that said they use credit cards were outnumbered by the respondents who use only debit cards. Not scientific by any means, but very revealing.

My point is, inserting a card and then a PIN is something that many Americans are already accustomed to. It will not slow things down to use that technology.
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