Better than robbing a bank....!

Get credit card fraud help: For victims of credit card fraud and identity theft, and those that can help.
13 posts
travelbug
Green Member
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Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:52 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Postby travelbug » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:23 pm

The other point I'll make is that the cardmember agreement states this:
"This agreement and your account will be governed by federal law, as well as the law of Delaware, and will apply no matter where you live or use this account"
What they don't say is that your recourse is almost nil if the dispute occurs out of the country. The US courts can probably refuse to hear a civil case if Visa and/or the card issuing bank assert that the actual "crime" occurred outside of their jurisdiction, even though the cardmember agreement holds you to US and Delaware laws no matter where you used the card.

MemberSince99 wrote:I think his point is you are told how "protected" you are from fraud. But when it gets into gray areas like this, he's right, they may well simply look at protecting themselves from the cost involved here.

Granted it's difficult for Chase to establish the facts of the case. But haven't they ever heard the term "Shanghai'd" before?


Bksuper
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Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:22 pm
Location: California

Postby Bksuper » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:48 pm

Seems like another case where your only out - hiring a lawyer of your own to argue the jurisdiction and grey law areas and fighting it up the chain on principle - costs more than you were scammed, so then its just can you afford to/are you willing to fight in on principle.
Sole Ownership Cards:
1st Financial Bank Platinum Student Visa, $500 CL, Open Since 3/2012
Citi Forward Student Visa, $6k CL, Open Since 10/2012
Costco TrueEarnings Amex, $6k CL, Backdates to 1/2012
SallieMae Rewards Barclay Mastercard, $2.5k CL, Open Since 4/2013
Jointly Owned Cards (co-owner with mom, not AU, used and paid only by me):
Chase Amazon Rewards Visa Signature, $2k CL, Open Since 8/2012
US Bank Cash+ Visa Signature, $13.5k CL, Open Since 10/2012
Authorized User (Parents Pay/Use)
Costco TrueEarnings Amex $29.4k CL, AU since 11/2012

travelbug
Green Member
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Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:52 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Postby travelbug » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:23 pm

Exactly!
I've been down that road before ( hiring a lawyer )......and while I felt some solace in the fact that I was costing them money ( a travel agency that ripped me off ), ultimately I just cost myself a few thousand more than if I had just walked away....
I'm more angry in this case with Visa, and the issuing bank, Chase ( who claims they are just following Visa's "rules" ), than with the criminals involved. I'm convinced Visa knows all about this kind of fraud.....and choses to do little about it. Giving merchant " authority" to overseas ripoff artists, knowing full well that no-one is really policing the card companies in this "grey" legal zone is a real risk for cardholders who travel regularly.
There could quite possibly be "merchants" overseas who have had a whole slew of complaints such as mine that Visa knows of...but we'll never know since they never publish any sort of "warning " list for cardmembers to use, or let's us know how many "merchants" have lost their charging privileges due to excessive complaints.

Bksuper wrote:Seems like another case where your only out - hiring a lawyer of your own to argue the jurisdiction and grey law areas and fighting it up the chain on principle - costs more than you were scammed, so then its just can you afford to/are you willing to fight in on principle.



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