Merchant Refused To Refund Me. Chase Couldn't Help Me.

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cchelp
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Merchant Refused To Refund Me. Chase Couldn't Help Me.

Postby cchelp » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:42 pm

I ordered from a seller online and the item wasn't what I wanted and I changed my mind. I contacted the seller and was told "as long as the item is unopened we will refund it". I returned it to them and was emailed from the seller stating the item looks like it was tampered with.

It had some wear on the box when I received it and I never touch the security sticker. They claim there was some fuzz around the sticker indicating it was tampered with. I contacted Chase and opened a claim and was refunded within 24hrs.

A few days after that I received an update via Chase stating I was NOT due credit and will be recharged. I asked to be sent proof of why I was recharged.

The paperwork just stated order information and ONLY stated that the item look tampered, upon opening the product, it appeared to have smudge marks and finger prints on it.

I contacted Chase and asked why I was recharged when the seller is only saying it looks tampered with. I was told because of the sellers policy and the fact they're saying it looked open Chase can no longer recover my money.

Can someone explain this to me please. and any advice at this point.

Thank you.

P.S. I understand it's basically a hearsay type of situation but I figured Chase would side with the customer on something like this.


cchelp
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Postby cchelp » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:42 am

I just got off the phone with Chase. I tried to get a better answer from someone else.

I was told because the seller filed a rebuttal and simply provided a statement saying the product was opened, Chase has to side with the seller. Even if there is no proof and just plain hearsay. At this time there is no way to re-open the claim.

So I still don't understand what would be the point of filing a claim if any seller just has to file a rebuttal and state the opposite of the customer and win the claim.

CCHELP....

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Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:20 am

I hate to say this, but being brutally honest - the honest guy takes it in the shorts every time around with our crooked system. It's set up that way from the get go and designed this way.

Yeah the merchant is going to claim that every time, very easy to do, no proof required and they will just take their word for it apparently. I mean why not shaft your customers? And the best part is, they get to keep your item you sent back and resell it to someone else so they will now get paid twice for it. How can you beat that? And who said crime doesn't pay if you do it smart?

There are lots of other things like this, but basically, you pretty much have to lie and say the item is defective, or something, basically telling the truth in disputes in gray area cases like this is going to get you sodomized.

I wish I had a better answer. But be sure and mention this to the next CSR who tells you how Chase stands behind you and values you as a customer, just for some fun, and mention how valued you really feel. That'll shut em up quick.

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djrez4
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Postby djrez4 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:33 pm

Tell the Merchant that if he doesn't refund the money or ship the item back to you at his cost, you'll take him to small claims court. Do it via email, not over the phone. Document everything. If he doesn't comply, take him to court.
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Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:44 pm

The problem with small claims court is, since he ordered online, odds are the merchant is thousands of miles away, and he would have to travel to the merchant's location to file unless things have changed since I last filed (back in the 80s). heck that's even true for full out lawsuits, as they still have to serve you and give you the chance ot defend yourself in a court that is local to you. And if you have to do that, odds are that even if you win your suit, it might cost you more than you'll win.

And if the merchant is really a crook, he can simply ship a brick back to this poor guy, show proof of delivery, claim he returned it, and say it's his word against mine who are you going to believe.

But you work in that area djrez4, realistically is that practical?

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Postby DoingHomework » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:22 pm

MemberSince99 wrote:The problem with small claims court is, since he ordered online, odds are the merchant is thousands of miles away, and he would have to travel to the merchant's location to file unless things have changed since I last filed (back in the 80s)....
But you work in that area djrez4, realistically is that practical?


Yeah...djrez, I'm surprised at your answer since you claim to be an attorney. Unless this is a really tiny merchant, they will simply have the case removed to regular civil court. Or more likely, the OP agreed to binding arbitration in Timbuktu or something when he ordered. Unless the OP is in the same state as the merchant a small claims claim, though valid, would almost certainly be easily removed to a real court.

Maybe it's the threat of a lawsuit that you are trying to hit them with. But unless they are really ignorant a small claims threat is unlikely to be meaningful. I know there are people who sue big companies in small claims everyday but they almost never collect. It's just too easy to show defect in service, procedures, jurisdiction, and so forth and get the entire proceeding thrown out and retried in a real court. Then the small guy ends up having to hire a lawyer and sometime having to pay the corporation's legal fees.

OP, the reason you are probably going to lose is that the vendor is not obligated to accept a return even if they have a policy of doing so unless there is a defect with the item. You are not claiming a defect, you just say you changed your mind or did not like the item. In that situation they can choose to accept a return or not so they probably don't need to give a reason for not accepting one. In this case they even gave a reason - it was opened. You might not agree and they might just be lying. But from the credit card company's point of view the merchant has no real reason to lie. They don't have to accept the return. If they usually do as a matter of policy then that is generous. If they choose not to in your case then the credit card company is not going to question that.

However, if they told you they would accept it back and give you a refund and they did not then I agree they owe you the merchandise. The shipping question might be debateable though. I suspect that if you request it back (by certified letter) but refuse to pay shipping then you'll create such a pain for them that they will just ship it to you. But I don't think you will get your money back, especially if this was software, a game, a DVD, or something like that.

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Postby trumpet-205 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:28 pm

Why not file complains to CFPB and BBB against Chase first? This should attracts Chase's attention.

Really, you should've at least taken some photos.
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Postby djrez4 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:14 pm

Sorry guys. I've had my brain stuck in discovery all day and proposed a half-baked idea. Your responses are much more thoughtful.

I guess we should ask about the vendor - size, location, etc? And, how much are we talking here?

Removal to another court doesn't happen in small claims unless the amount in controversy is too high or the defendant lacks nexus.

I don't think filing complaints against Chase is appropriate.
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MemberSince99
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Postby MemberSince99 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:37 pm

djrez4, I kid you not I was just reading a thread on FICO when I see Credit314 posts "+1" and I just couldn't help laughing!

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Postby DoingHomework » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:35 pm

djrez4 wrote:Removal to another court doesn't happen in small claims unless the amount in controversy is too high or the defendant lacks nexus.


If the shipment crossed state lines there is a federal nexus. If it was delivered by the US Postal Service the federal courts could have jurisdiction. If it was delivered by UPS or Fedex there would likely be federal jurisdiction even in the same state since the package was carried by a regulated carrier and likely crossed state lines during movement to a hub. These questions might ultimately be losers but they would almost definitely warrant a hearing that the OP would need to attend with representation.



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