Credit union rules fraud claim invalid?

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Andreajep
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Credit union rules fraud claim invalid?

Postby Andreajep » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:54 pm

About three weeks ago, two of my credit card numbers were used fraudulently. I still had the cards in my wallet and found the charges a couple of days later when I checked my accounts online. No one other than me is authorized to use my credit cards (no kid, spouse, etc).

The first card is from a major national bank and was used at a popular online merchant. Both merchant and bank were very helpful, and those charges were reversed within one business day. The card itself was promptly cancelled and reissued.

The second card is from a local credit union and the number was used at StraightTalk. (Several years ago I had tried out ST for one month. My old account page doesn't even list that long-ago payment, has no stored credit card, shows no payment history whatsoever, and shows only the one inactive sim card. In other words, this ST charge was NOT to my old account.) I contacted ST through online chat, where they claimed they couldn't help me since the charge was not on my ST account. They also claimed they could not look up the credit card number to track down the fraudulent charge (which I don't believe, since that is exactly what merchant #1 did to reverse the charges on their end). They gave me a number to call, where I was again told that ST couldn't do anything and that I needed to contact my card issuer.

I gave all of the above info to my credit union, including an email of the chat transcript with StraightTalk, who then took over a week to investigate and get back to me, only for them to decide that my fraud claim was invalid. The letter contains no reasoning whatsoever to lead to this decision. The amount is a little over $60, so it isn't going to break me, but I am still furious. I thought I wasn't legally liable for a fraudulent charge, especially since the card was in my possession? So how can they do this?

I've read that I have 10 (business?) days to write to the card issuer. Is that likely to get them to reconsider, or am I out of luck? Do credit unions not have to follow these consumer protection laws, or is my credit union breaking the law by holding me liable for this fraudulent charge?

Thank you.


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kcm7
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Re: Credit union rules fraud claim invalid?

Postby kcm7 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:38 pm

It looks like you are in the right. I'd be on the phone with my credit union right away.

By law, a card issuer CAN make you liable for $50 in charges that took place before you reported a card compromised. But most big banks don't do that. Maybe, your credit bureau is trying to hold on to the first $50? But even if they are, what about the final $10? I'd call for answers immediately and demand an explanation. And, if they didn't refund me, I'd announce, "OK then, I'm closing all accounts with you." And then do it.
Cards:

-Capital One Quicksilver
-Barclaycard Arrival (no AF)
- US Bank (no rewards)
-IHG

Andreajep
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Re: Credit union rules fraud claim invalid?

Postby Andreajep » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:54 pm

kcm7 wrote:It looks like you are in the right. I'd be on the phone with my credit union right away.

By law, a card issuer CAN make you liable for $50 in charges that took place before you reported a card compromised. But most big banks don't do that. Maybe, your credit bureau is trying to hold on to the first $50? But even if they are, what about the final $10? I'd call for answers immediately and demand an explanation. And, if they didn't refund me, I'd announce, "OK then, I'm closing all accounts with you." And then do it.

Thanks for the response. You and I think alike as far as closing accounts. That was my plan if I didn't like the credit union's response.

An update:
I called the credit union this morning, and this was their reason for declaring my fraud claim invalid: when I went to one of the branches to get my replacement cards (the day after I called them about the fraudulent charge), the representative I spoke to apparently put in my account that my cards had been lost. That's it. That is their reason.

Problem 1: I never said my cards were lost. I have said all along that the numbers were stolen. I still had the cards at that time.
Problem 2: So what if they were stolen? If my cards had been stolen, and someone found and used them, that would still be fraud. What an absurd reason to deny a fraud claim.

They agreed to reopen the fraud case, but simply said they would "reach out to Straight Talk again," which seems like a useless course of action, so I'm not holding my breath. I went to the nearest branch in person and spoke to an assistant manager, who said there was nothing further he could do and he didn't seem to care anyway. He didn't bat an eyelash when I closed my savings account and asked for a check for most of the money I had with them. I left some money in checking to cover some transactions that I know are still pending, but once those are clear, I will close the checking account and the credit card as well.

I hope I'll get that $60 charge reversed, but I'm not counting on it at this point. I'm just thankful that it wasn't thousands of dollars.

swipe_masta
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Re: Credit union rules fraud claim invalid?

Postby swipe_masta » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:18 pm

Andreajep wrote:About three weeks ago, two of my credit card numbers were used fraudulently. I still had the cards in my wallet and found the charges a couple of days later when I checked my accounts online. No one other than me is authorized to use my credit cards (no kid, spouse, etc).

The first card is from a major national bank and was used at a popular online merchant. Both merchant and bank were very helpful, and those charges were reversed within one business day. The card itself was promptly cancelled and reissued.

The second card is from a local credit union and the number was used at StraightTalk. (Several years ago I had tried out ST for one month. My old account page doesn't even list that long-ago payment, has no stored credit card, shows no payment history whatsoever, and shows only the one inactive sim card. In other words, this ST charge was NOT to my old account.) I contacted ST through online chat, where they claimed they couldn't help me since the charge was not on my ST account. They also claimed they could not look up the credit card number to track down the fraudulent charge (which I don't believe, since that is exactly what merchant #1 did to reverse the charges on their end). They gave me a number to call, where I was again told that ST couldn't do anything and that I needed to contact my card issuer.

I gave all of the above info to my credit union, including an email of the chat transcript with StraightTalk, who then took over a week to investigate and get back to me, only for them to decide that my fraud claim was invalid. The letter contains no reasoning whatsoever to lead to this decision. The amount is a little over $60, so it isn't going to break me, but I am still furious. I thought I wasn't legally liable for a fraudulent charge, especially since the card was in my possession? So how can they do this?

I've read that I have 10 (business?) days to write to the card issuer. Is that likely to get them to reconsider, or am I out of luck? Do credit unions not have to follow these consumer protection laws, or is my credit union breaking the law by holding me liable for this fraudulent charge?

Thank you.


I'm confused... So payment to StraightTalk was not the account you had long ago correct? Which means it was paid towards a new account. But ST does not know what account of theirs used your credit card fraudulently...

I wouldn't judge them so quickly because every company handles sensitive info differently. ST truly might not be able to look up the charge by your credit card number because they are not set up that way. It's like doing a return in a physical store. Some stores store your card info and can look up returns w/o receipts with the use of your card. Some stores can't do this. If you ask any wireless phone service, "Hey can you look up transaction details if I give you a credit card number?" They wouldn't be able to do it; they look you up by your service account info if you are a customer.

Past the customer service reps, I'm sure there is a billing dept that can look that info up internally with a little digging. The only thing I can think of is they reached out to the account owner and asked how they used your credit card. If their story checks out, then it can be ruled as non-fraudulent and decide against you. If you can prove that you are in fact not the account owner of ST's service, then they can consider it fraud. Can you think of any reason why they would rule against you? Have you followed up with your credit union?

Andreajep
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Re: Credit union rules fraud claim invalid?

Postby Andreajep » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:56 pm

swipe_masta wrote:
Andreajep wrote:About three weeks ago, two of my credit card numbers were used fraudulently. I still had the cards in my wallet and found the charges a couple of days later when I checked my accounts online. No one other than me is authorized to use my credit cards (no kid, spouse, etc).

The first card is from a major national bank and was used at a popular online merchant. Both merchant and bank were very helpful, and those charges were reversed within one business day. The card itself was promptly cancelled and reissued.

The second card is from a local credit union and the number was used at StraightTalk. (Several years ago I had tried out ST for one month. My old account page doesn't even list that long-ago payment, has no stored credit card, shows no payment history whatsoever, and shows only the one inactive sim card. In other words, this ST charge was NOT to my old account.) I contacted ST through online chat, where they claimed they couldn't help me since the charge was not on my ST account. They also claimed they could not look up the credit card number to track down the fraudulent charge (which I don't believe, since that is exactly what merchant #1 did to reverse the charges on their end). They gave me a number to call, where I was again told that ST couldn't do anything and that I needed to contact my card issuer.

I gave all of the above info to my credit union, including an email of the chat transcript with StraightTalk, who then took over a week to investigate and get back to me, only for them to decide that my fraud claim was invalid. The letter contains no reasoning whatsoever to lead to this decision. The amount is a little over $60, so it isn't going to break me, but I am still furious. I thought I wasn't legally liable for a fraudulent charge, especially since the card was in my possession? So how can they do this?

I've read that I have 10 (business?) days to write to the card issuer. Is that likely to get them to reconsider, or am I out of luck? Do credit unions not have to follow these consumer protection laws, or is my credit union breaking the law by holding me liable for this fraudulent charge?

Thank you.


I'm confused... So payment to StraightTalk was not the account you had long ago correct? Which means it was paid towards a new account. But ST does not know what account of theirs used your credit card fraudulently...

I wouldn't judge them so quickly because every company handles sensitive info differently. ST truly might not be able to look up the charge by your credit card number because they are not set up that way. It's like doing a return in a physical store. Some stores store your card info and can look up returns w/o receipts with the use of your card. Some stores can't do this. If you ask any wireless phone service, "Hey can you look up transaction details if I give you a credit card number?" They wouldn't be able to do it; they look you up by your service account info if you are a customer.

Past the customer service reps, I'm sure there is a billing dept that can look that info up internally with a little digging. The only thing I can think of is they reached out to the account owner and asked how they used your credit card. If their story checks out, then it can be ruled as non-fraudulent and decide against you. If you can prove that you are in fact not the account owner of ST's service, then they can consider it fraud. Can you think of any reason why they would rule against you? Have you followed up with your credit union?

Thanks for the response. I actually posted an update several hours ago, but my posts have to be cleared by mods, so it hasn't shown up yet as I'm reading your response. My update should be visible by the time this post shows up, though.

There is absolutely no one who has permission to use my credit cards other than me, so no one else's story is going to "check out" unless Straight Talk just never looked into it at all. I have no children, spouse, roommates, etc. to muddy up the story. This is someone unrelated to me, who had no right whatsoever to use my credit card, who used it to buy ST minutes on a Straight Talk account that I have no knowledge of and have no access to. Seems to be pretty clear-cut fraud to me, and yet I'm finding out that, at least for this credit union, fraud victims are guilty until proven innocent. And since Straight Talk is completely unwilling to help, I have no way to prove that this mysterious account is not mine.

mountaindewvoltage
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Re: Credit union rules fraud claim invalid?

Postby mountaindewvoltage » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:05 am

kcm7 wrote:It looks like you are in the right. I'd be on the phone with my credit union right away.

By law, a card issuer CAN make you liable for $50 in charges that took place before you reported a card compromised. But most big banks don't do that. Maybe, your credit bureau is trying to hold on to the first $50? But even if they are, what about the final $10? I'd call for answers immediately and demand an explanation. And, if they didn't refund me, I'd announce, "OK then, I'm closing all accounts with you." And then do it.


I think we should re-evaluate this person's story. Often times people refer to their debit card as a "credit card" which is a common and annoying mistake.

With that said, what you said was untrue. Under the Fair Credit Billing Act, you aren't liable for anything for a compromised credit card, but you can be liable for up to $50 if you don't report your card lost/stolen before any charges take place.

In the case of a debit card, it all depends on when you report the fraud/lost/stolen card, because you can be liable up to an unlimited amount if you're not careful, however, many banks and all issuers hold you liable for $0 if you use a signature for your purchases and report it promptly. The "special" privilege of having $0 liability usually doesn't extend to PIN based transactions .

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kcm7
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Re: Credit union rules fraud claim invalid?

Postby kcm7 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:03 pm

Ah yes, you are correct about that. My bad.

That said, it looks like, based on OP's follow-up, that the credit union is claiming OP said the card was lost and may actually be using the FCBA's $50 "cushion" against OP. Not sure how they're justifying not paying back the remaining $10, though.

mountaindewvoltage wrote:
kcm7 wrote:It looks like you are in the right. I'd be on the phone with my credit union right away.

By law, a card issuer CAN make you liable for $50 in charges that took place before you reported a card compromised. But most big banks don't do that. Maybe, your credit bureau is trying to hold on to the first $50? But even if they are, what about the final $10? I'd call for answers immediately and demand an explanation. And, if they didn't refund me, I'd announce, "OK then, I'm closing all accounts with you." And then do it.


I think we should re-evaluate this person's story. Often times people refer to their debit card as a "credit card" which is a common and annoying mistake.

With that said, what you said was untrue. Under the Fair Credit Billing Act, you aren't liable for anything for a compromised credit card, but you can be liable for up to $50 if you don't report your card lost/stolen before any charges take place.

In the case of a debit card, it all depends on when you report the fraud/lost/stolen card, because you can be liable up to an unlimited amount if you're not careful, however, many banks and all issuers hold you liable for $0 if you use a signature for your purchases and report it promptly. The "special" privilege of having $0 liability usually doesn't extend to PIN based transactions .
Cards:

-Capital One Quicksilver
-Barclaycard Arrival (no AF)
- US Bank (no rewards)
-IHG



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