Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

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Vermonster
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Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby Vermonster » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:57 am

This is more of an opinion topic.

I was thinking about this today on my way to work. The idea behind EMV is that it prevents skimming the mag strip, but for right now most places will swipe the card first then the reader will tell them to use the chip reader instead. So with that swipe your card is just as likely to be skimmed. And as far as I know the mag strip still contains all the data for those instances that a chip reader is not available.

But the other big issue to me is that most skimmers appear to be attached to ATMs and gas pumps. These seem to be exempt from the EMV changeover due to the complexity of swapping out the readers. I don't know about you guys but our family is swiping cards at gas pumps 2-3 times a week. That worries me a lot more than the once a month Macy's or WalMart purchase.

It just feels like this is a half assed attempt to appease the masses (and congress) by doing a whole lot of nothing. Perhaps I'm wrong, feel free to let me know.
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CarefulBuilder14
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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:29 am

I have more swipe than insert transactions, but as insert becomes more widespread, cloned cards will be a less frequent problem.

All of the fraud problems on cards in my family have been online/phone card-not-present transactions.
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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby Whatamuji » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:01 pm

Since we're on the topic of EMV, I would like to add that I think it's odd that some places don't require a signature when inserting the card into the POS. My local walmart required signatures at first but now since I got back from vacation they don't while other places like Tim Hortons or sit-down restaurants in Canada do.
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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby takeshi » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:25 pm

Vermonster wrote:It just feels like this is a half assed attempt to appease the masses (and congress) by doing a whole lot of nothing. Perhaps I'm wrong, feel free to let me know.

It's a process so, yes, during the transition the benefit won't be as much as it would be without total elimination of the mag stripe.

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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:28 pm

Whatamuji wrote:Since we're on the topic of EMV, I would like to add that I think it's odd that some places don't require a signature when inserting the card into the POS. My local walmart required signatures at first but now since I got back from vacation they don't while other places like Tim Hortons or sit-down restaurants in Canada do.

The amount of the transaction is also a factor. Some small swipe transactions around here don't require a signature, PIN, or ZIP code.
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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby Vermonster » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:21 pm

But the mag strip doesn't stop working. So think about all the places that are still going to be swiping. When was the last time Target had a skimmer? You see them all the time at gas stations.
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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby Kevin86475391 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:34 am

I think this is just the first step in a long journey to reduce credit card fraud. The EMV technology is more secure than traditional mag strips and I do think it's the direction things are going to move in the future. However, of course until it reaches a critical mass in adoption they'll be lots of remaining vulnerabilities.

I think the big thing is that it needs to be a more economically sound choice for individual merchants to pay for new equipment than to keep losing out on fraudulent charges. The reality is that individual US consumers are - in my opinion - rather fortunate when it comes to credit card fraud. I've been hit about 5 or 6 different times in the last year on different cards, but it hasn't cost me a dime, just a few minutes of my time on the phone with the fraud department and a few days waiting for a new card. So really, I think it's almost beside the point whether or not we as individual consumers continue getting hit from time to time; what will matter is whether or not merchants that shell out for the new system see a long-term benefit by reducing fraud. Where we're ACTUALLY paying the price for fraud is in higher product costs as merchants have to raise prices to cover fraud losses. In that sense if I personally still get hit when I swipe my card at Starbucks or something that's just a blip if Starbucks as a corporation sees fraud cost reduction. But please, someone let me know if that hasn't been your experience, if credit card fraud has personally cost you money even though you were monitoring your account and reported it promptly.

Of course I have no doubt whatsoever that industrious criminals will figure out a way to beat the EMV system too. Ultimately it's almost certainly just a technological arms race, doesn't mean the merchants (or the crooks for that matter) can afford to stop. PERHAPS as a society we'll defeat credit card fraud with technological innovation...but it doesn't seem that likely to me. EMV is just the next thing, but it is a good system, it's long over due, and I think it will help - especially once it's widely adopted.

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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby whit » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:45 pm

Vermonster wrote:But the mag strip doesn't stop working. So think about all the places that are still going to be swiping. When was the last time Target had a skimmer? You see them all the time at gas stations.


I was just at target less than two weeks ago and it recognized that my discover had a chip so it wouldn't let me process the transaction with a swipe

Instead it asked for me to insert it in--just like the atms

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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby dragon452 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:38 pm

Vermonster wrote: It just feels like this is a half assed attempt to appease the masses (and congress) by doing a whole lot of nothing. Perhaps I'm wrong, feel free to let me know.


I agree 100%. Except for computer software design and highly specialized electronics, the U.S. consumer electronics/computer industry has "left the building" years ago. We lag behind much of the civilized world in introducing or utilizing innovations in electronics and computer security (on purpose, probably). Friends returning from Europe and Asia have told me they have seen cellphones, TV sets, digital cameras, computers and even vending machines that we haven't seen here yet. More to the point, I read an article a few weeks ago, that somebody has already designed a prototype "EMV Chip "skimmer/shimmer", that is ultrathin, and was placed in a Diebold ATM somewhere in Mexico. That's right, the crooks are already hot on the trail to skimming our chip cards, and stupid ass banks like my local savings bank (soon to be my EX-savings bank), have not even STARTED to mail out EMV equipped cards! The entire transition is a mess, as usual. Just keep a close eye on your transactions and where you do them. Thanks.

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Re: Is EMV actually going to do aything to reduce fraud?

Postby Whatamuji » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:03 pm

Part of the issue when it comes to bank security is that most other countries are not as large as ours both in population and geography and thus can quickly implement new forms of security. Also another point to mention is that most other countries don't have the ridiculous number of banks we do (5000 I think was the last count). So it's costly to have banks transfer from one system to another and takes more time than need be to implement. If we had fewer banks then this system could easily be implemented fully in a couple of years unlike the decade or so it's gonna take here.
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