Merchants aren't allowed to require your ID

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InCreditWeTrust
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Postby InCreditWeTrust » Mon May 21, 2012 1:16 pm

Merchants also have to protect themselves by making sure all transactions are legitimate this includes credit card transaction, a simple ID check is to simply assure you are the actual credit card owner. Otherwise if your credit card is stolen, someone can use your credit card to make purchases. It's a safety net.

In fact I think the credit cars user should be required to enter a pin number for every purchase made used with a credit card, to prevent fraudulent charges. Unfortunately, many merchants or cashiers don't even bother really examining the ID's they are given so even some false ID's will get by.

There is nothing wrong with merchants requesting ID, if you have a problem with it simple don't shop there and get lost. It's boggling why any respective and responsible credit card user would argue against this safety assurance practice.


2percentPlus
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Postby 2percentPlus » Mon May 21, 2012 4:27 pm

InCreditWeTrust wrote:Merchants also have to protect themselves by making sure all transactions are legitimate this includes credit card transaction, a simple ID check is to simply assure you are the actual credit card owner. Otherwise if your credit card is stolen, someone can use your credit card to make purchases. It's a safety net.


Lol. What's next? A simple RFID implant in your wrist so that businesses and others can "protect themself" and assure that you are who you say you are?

There is nothing wrong with merchants requesting ID, if you have a problem with it simple don't shop there and get lost. It's boggling why any respective and responsible credit card user would argue against this safety assurance practice.


You're right, there's nothing wrong with merchants requesting ID. There is definitely something wrong with attempting to require ID.

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Postby WestCoast » Mon May 21, 2012 7:21 pm

Merchants ALREADY have ways to protect themselves. Is the card current? Is it signed? Do the signatures match? Do the signatures even look like they MIGHT match? Did you get an electronic approval number? If not, did you call for an approval number? If merchants weren’t so lazy they could solve 99% of all credit card fraud themselves.

There IS something wrong with merchants requesting ID. State laws aside, THEY AGREED NOT TO DO IT! In other words they lied through their teeth to their merchant bank.

So now I have to put my financial identity at risk because they’re too lazy and dishonest to solve the problem with the tools they already have? There’s a word that I’d use to describe my direct opinion about this but as this is a family site I can’t use it. Suffice it to say that the word is derived from that which comes out of a cow’s rear end. . .

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Postby DoingHomework » Tue May 22, 2012 11:14 am

2percentPlus wrote:Lol. What's next? A simple RFID implant in your wrist so that businesses and others can "protect themself" and assure that you are who you say you are?


No, of course not. A security camera, facial recognition software, and a subscription to the right national national database is all that is needed. The technology exists and far more merchants use it that you can possibly imagine.

Get used to it or stay home in a cave.

WestCoast
 
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Postby WestCoast » Tue May 22, 2012 2:43 pm

InCreditWeTrust wrote:There is nothing wrong with merchants requesting ID, if you have a problem with it simple don't shop there and get lost.


If the merchant posted a sign that said "ID Required" or similar I wouldn't shop there. Unfortunately, they have chosen to ambush their customers at the register or hotel check in desk instead of honestly making the customer aware. This is deceptive and dishonest.

Remember, the merchant agreement states quite clearly that the merchant will not require any ID when accepting a credit card. . .

DoingHomework
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Postby DoingHomework » Tue May 22, 2012 6:59 pm

WestCoast wrote:If the merchant posted a sign that said "ID Required" or similar I wouldn't shop there. Unfortunately, they have chosen to ambush their customers at the register or hotel check in desk instead of honestly making the customer aware. This is deceptive and dishonest.


In most states a hotel is required by statute to check the ID of every guest. Not all do but they are supposed to. So why should they need a sign to inform you that they are complying with the law? How is that deceptive or dishonest?

WestCoast wrote:Remember, the merchant agreement states quite clearly that the merchant will not require any ID when accepting a credit card. . .


No, actually it does not. The merchant agreement with visa and mastercard says a merchant cannot require ID AS A CONDITION OF ACCEEPTANCE OF A SPECIFIC BRAND OF CARD over other methods of payment. If a merchant routinely requires ID for all purchases then the clause does not apply (a liquor store or firearms dealer for example) Amex does not make that limitation. I do not believe the limitation applies to debit cards either nor does it apply to CNP or MOTO transactions or for unsigned cards. And, as we've heard above, that clause in the merchant agreement is void where local regulations override it.

Actually, I just checked with Visa. I was told that no part of the merchant agreement should be construed as discouraging a merchant from asking for ID if there is any suspicion. They specifically recommend asking for ID in a long list of circumstances and note that refusal to provide ID is suspicious behavior. A merchant simply cannot tell customers that they require ID for Visa cards. If the merchant always requires ID or if, in a specific transaction, the merchant is suspicious for any reason, it is permissible to ask for ID. If the customer refuses there is a way to communicate that refusal to Visa immediately.

There are also a number of specific customer behaviors that are very common and you have probably all done them that, according to Visa, require the merchant to ask for ID. Blocking the cashier's view of the paper you sign or signing it outside the view of the cashier are two examples. When is the last time you signed a restaurant bill in view of the server?

DoingHomework
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Postby DoingHomework » Tue May 22, 2012 7:18 pm

WestCoast wrote:Merchants ALREADY have ways to protect themselves... If merchants weren’t so lazy they could solve 99% of all credit card fraud themselves.


A lazy merchant would not ask for ID. That takes effort.

WestCoast wrote:There IS something wrong with merchants requesting ID. State laws aside, THEY AGREED NOT TO DO IT! In other words they lied through their teeth to their merchant bank.


You might want to READ an actual merchant agreement and get the merchant training that is available for Visa/MC, etc. You are just plain wrong.

WestCoast wrote:So now I have to put my financial identity at risk because they’re too lazy and dishonest to solve the problem with the tools they already have? There’s a word that I’d use to describe my direct opinion about this but as this is a family site I can’t use it. Suffice it to say that the word is derived from that which comes out of a cow’s rear end. . .


You don't have to put your financial identity at risk. You can pay with cash. How is showing your DL or other government ID putting you at risk? You know where the merchant's business is and can easily find out where he lives. Why shouldn't he know the same about you if you are coming in his store?

Do you realize that it actually costs the merchant more money and hence YOU more money if they process transactions in different ways? A charge submitted with your address and zip code get a lower fee than one without. Including the card code (CVV) affects the rate, etc. You probably don't care but if you are ever involved in a business when you grow up you will understand the importance of cost control.

This thread is really interesting to me. I had no idea people could be so emotional about simply showing ID when the merchant is risking not being paid if the transaction is bad. I get asked for ID sometimes and could not care less.

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Postby DoingHomework » Tue May 22, 2012 7:33 pm

One more interesting tidbit. An unsigned card is invalid. A merchant is not required to accept it. If it is accepted than the merchant must ask for ID and must demand that the customer sign the card immediately in their presence. If the customer refuses then the merchant must not accept the card and must notify Visa..

If you write "See ID" on the back, this is also an invalid card and should be treated as an unsigned card - that is, ID is required and the merchant must demand you sign it immediately or report it as invalid.

In both the situations above the merchant is supposed to write the ID number and other customer information directly on the sales receipt that the merchant keeps.

And, referring back to an earlier round in this thread, Visa also requires a merchant to hold a card in their possession when reporting a suspicious transaction or suspicious customer behavior. That is not in any way theft because it is specifically allowed by the card issuer. The only reason it is not required is because merchants may feel threatened. But if a merchant ever starts to report you for that and you grab the card back from them, you're gonna have some 'splainin' to do. You card will likely be invalidated if the merchant has swiped it and YOU have at that point committed theft (from Visa) and likely assault (on the clerk).

Yeah, I know these rules aren't usually followed. But that's what they are, directly from Visa.



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