Merchants aren't allowed to require your ID

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Marcov719
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Postby Marcov719 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:18 am

handslikestars wrote:Hey all, let me give you the cashier's perspective (I work for a luxury retailer).


When I use to work at a video game retailer I would do the same. And there has been numerous times when someone didn't want to show there ID or "forgot it". I would typically get something in response like, "Oh, I'll just get some cash out at a ATM, where is the nearest bank for this card?" Really??


2percentPlus
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Postby 2percentPlus » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:26 pm

handslikestars wrote:When we are defrauded we lose twice. We have to give back the money and we are still SOL on the merchandise.


No you don't. The money was never the store's and the store writes off the inventory.

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FastSRT8
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Postby FastSRT8 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:55 pm

2percentPlus wrote:No you don't. The money was never the store's and the store writes off the inventory.


That's actually a good point.
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Postby DoingHomework » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:23 pm

2percentPlus wrote:No you don't. The money was never the store's and the store writes off the inventory.


Writing off the inventory is another way of saying recognizing the LOSS! The store loses.

I am a merchant. I have to fill out a form online every year stating how I protect customer information and how I prevent fraud. One question is whether I ever ask for ID. I usually answer "yes" because I reserve that right. That answer triggers follow up questions about whether I store the ID information (which I do not). It has never triggered so much as an email or phone call telling me I can't do it.

I am aware of the clause in the merchant agreement prohibiting asking for ID. But merchants also have obligations under law to prevent fraud and to know their customer. Those requirements supersede the agreement. I don't think Visa or Mastercard want to have that issue litigated so they are not going to fine a merchant requiring ID unless there is some other issue like in the Circuit City situation.

If you bought from me I probably would not ask for ID. If I did and you refused, you would leave my premises without your merchandise. I might also keep your card and report the suspicious activity to the police. You would get it back eventually from your issuer but only after a major hassle. I, on the other hand, would hide behind my Know Your Customer obligations and seriously doubt I would face any kind of scrutiny.

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Postby JCarter » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:52 pm

DoingHomework wrote:Writing off the inventory is another way of saying recognizing the LOSS! The store loses.

I am a merchant. I have to fill out a form online every year stating how I protect customer information and how I prevent fraud. One question is whether I ever ask for ID. I usually answer "yes" because I reserve that right. That answer triggers follow up questions about whether I store the ID information (which I do not). It has never triggered so much as an email or phone call telling me I can't do it.

I am aware of the clause in the merchant agreement prohibiting asking for ID. But merchants also have obligations under law to prevent fraud and to know their customer. Those requirements supersede the agreement. I don't think Visa or Mastercard want to have that issue litigated so they are not going to fine a merchant requiring ID unless there is some other issue like in the Circuit City situation.

If you bought from me I probably would not ask for ID. If I did and you refused, you would leave my premises without your merchandise. I might also keep your card and report the suspicious activity to the police. You would get it back eventually from your issuer but only after a major hassle. I, on the other hand, would hide behind my Know Your Customer obligations and seriously doubt I would face any kind of scrutiny.


KYC does not apply to most retailers. It applys when conducting financial transactions, and very very specific retail/wholesale transactions. IE: You are buying sinus medication, or fertilizer.

I guarantee one thing, if you ever held my card I would be contacting the police who would in turn be arresting you for larceny and anything else I could find off of the statutes which would apply in the specific situation. I would also be initiating a suit for IIED, in direct violation of your merchant agreement.

So unless you sell explosives, farm products or operate a drug store it is highly unlikely you can hide under KYC. Which does not require you to verify the customer information due to a transaction on credit card but due to the product sold.

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Postby JCarter » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:54 pm

handslikestars wrote:Hey all, let me give you the cashier's perspective (I work for a luxury retailer).

When someone hands me a CC the first thing I do is check the back. 70% of the time there is no signature at all. 5% of the time someone has written CID or Check ID. The rest of the cards are usually signed, probably in chicken scratch.

Now, if you're purchasing something less than $50 and are a normal person, I don't care who you are. I'm going to swipe your card and we'll both go on our merry way. If you hand me your card and make some stupid joke about fraud, I'm going to ask for your ID. If you rummage through a pile of cards that all look the same but have different numbers, I'm going to ask for your ID.

If you hand me a card with a name that doesn't "fit" (i.e. you are a standard American white male and you hand me a card that says Malik Abdoulla or Chen Lai) I'm going to ask for your ID. I know it doesn't sound right, but we do profile. We profile because we have been defrauded before and it sucks. I would rather pay a fine than have someone walk out of my door with $2000 of my merchandise.

When we are defrauded we lose twice. We have to give back the money and we are still SOL on the merchandise. Not to even mention the hours of paperwork and phone calls. Time is money. I would rather piss off a customer and have them go storming out empty handed then risk the fraud. And honestly, when you all refuse to take a second to flash an ID and storm out, we assume that you are indeed trying to pull a fast one.

We are generally NOT interested in where you live or picking off your information. We just glance at your name and pic, then your face to see that they match up. You all give more sensitive information when you sign up for a magazine subscription than by simply flashing an ID for 2 seconds.


Magazine subscriptions do not require drivers license information, or other details. In the case of luxury purchases I would be happy to provide a business card, along with a US Passport Card or my Global Entry card, should my purchase be above $5,000. You're not seeing my drivers license.

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Postby 2percentPlus » Tue May 01, 2012 12:00 am

DoingHomework wrote:Writing off the inventory is another way of saying recognizing the LOSS! The store loses.


The store loses once, on the cost of the inventory, not twice or on the price of the inventory.

And really, as far as I know, if you have proper acceptance and the card is valid, the merchant copy signature matches and the POS didn't prompt for ID or phone authorization, then you should be covered for the chargeback. I'm not sure about that since I don't process credit cards and the people that do cover unauthorized use.

I might also keep your card and report the suspicious activity to the police. You would get it back eventually from your issuer but only after a major hassle.


The day that you did that to me, would be the day that I also sue you, your company, partners, credit card processor and anybody else that I could, and kept your business, house, car, retirement, insurance, vacation home, kids education...everything.

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Postby 2percentPlus » Tue May 01, 2012 12:02 am

JCarter wrote:a US Passport Card or my Global Entry card, should my purchase be above $5,000. You're not seeing my drivers license.


Awesome idea, thanks. The cashier robots will still lift their head and say "that's not a drivers license". Next time I'm saying my license is revoked, habitual offender, have a few vehicular homicides, something like that.

Funny thing is, they don't ask for it over $5,000, sometimes on something for $6.

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FastSRT8
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Postby FastSRT8 » Tue May 01, 2012 12:19 am

JCarter wrote:Magazine subscriptions do not require drivers license information, or other details. In the case of luxury purchases I would be happy to provide a business card, along with a US Passport Card or my Global Entry card, should my purchase be above $5,000. You're not seeing my drivers license.


Hmmmm a good idea but that would mean I would have to carry my passport everywhere I go! I guess the premise behind not showing your drivers license is to prevent the merchant from knowing your address?
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Postby 2percentPlus » Tue May 01, 2012 12:49 am

Passport card is much more portable and less risky to carry with you.

The idea is address and date of birth but I guess the passport card still fails in the DOB dept.



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