How is fraud determined if a pin was used?

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rivitae
 
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How is fraud determined if a pin was used?

Postby rivitae » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:10 am

My problem is that someone close to me was performing unauthorized bank transfers to their account over a billing cycle period, (up until now I only ever used my mailed statements to reconcile), and this person also at times had lifted my debit card, gone and withdrew funds, then replaced it before its absence was detected. I didn't even know that this person knew my pin number.

My question is, how is it determined that this person did not have my permission? The transfers were made directly into their account, with no attempt to hide the identity of the receiver, and since my pin was used, how can I prove that the transactions were unauthorized? The bank has issued a temporary charge back while they investigate, but I'm afraid that it will be hard to prove as fraud, and I will be out almost $30,000. Any thoughts?


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Postby nismoZtuner » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:49 pm

well if you know the person who is doing this- why don't you take it to court?
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Postby flan » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:21 pm

nismoZtuner wrote:well if you know the person who is doing this- why don't you take it to court?


File a police report. yes, that's likely to get the person arrested. But they're a thief, so don't feel bad.

The alternative is that you let yourself be a victim, because the bank is unlikely to reverse the transfers in the absence of evidence to support the claim of fraud.

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Postby nismoZtuner » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:07 pm

flan wrote:File a police report. yes, that's likely to get the person arrested. But they're a thief, so don't feel bad.

The alternative is that you let yourself be a victim, because the bank is unlikely to reverse the transfers in the absence of evidence to support the claim of fraud.


I feel the OP is a post and leave
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Postby whit » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:10 pm

Hey! It was just posted today

There's still time yet (pls prove me right as my track record isn't so swell OP)

But in all honestly, for any bank account, it would depend on the agreement you signed up for

And if I had to guess, that while you're not liable for any fraudulent charges you are responsible on your part to do due diligence and keep your money safe. That means NOT sharing your pin, writing it on the back of your card or on a paper in your wallet where you keep ur cards..it means not letting people use your card in place of u..and so forth

So unless there was something like..target breach and not only was the card number but also pin compromised and the theft happened before your bank could give u a new card and before u could get it changed (like a few days before target released the news this happened but it's during the time that it was compromised so u didn't know)

Than you may be able to go to ur bank and say hey, dig into ur insurance or reserves cos this happened due to third party negligence and not mine!!

But generally if it's pin, it's hard to argue against because it's your own personal number that you and no one else should know so..

Kinda like how chip and pin is more secure than a magnetic stripe card and signature

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Postby rivitae » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:20 am

I appreciate all of your thoughts\advice, and last night I guess I am guilty of being a post and leave. I just thought it was something I could come back to later on and read any replies, I wasn't aware that people would be expecting me to be able to clarify or answer them immediately, I guess since threads have to be reviewed by a moderator before they are posted. I apologize. I know better now and will be online for awhile tonight so I will be able to check my thread for any new thoughts or advice, should anyone feel like sharing.

To elaborate on my op, I have filed a police report, that is the first thing that I was told I should do, prior to even contacting my bank to initiate the dispute. That way I had a incident\report number to provide to the bank when I called. If nothing else, I think it would at least show the bank that I am serious about the transactions not being authorized, and not just trying to commit fraud myself. My concerns that prompted me to post in the first place were the facts that my pin had indeed been compromised, (I can come up with only that this person had at some point seen me enter it. I haven't ever let this person use my card at all, for any reason.), and the blatant lack of discretion on this persons part. They had a bank account at another bank, and it has since been closed because of my claim of fraud.

Like I said earlier, until now I only ever used my paper statements to balance my accounts, and over a billing cycle period, (roughly), this person had gone online, created an online banking account in my name, for my accounts, and was able to basically use it as their own. I suppose they could have had new cards mailed to them, but that might have set off one of their 'fraud alert' safeguards, and I might have been made aware. They were very careful to make sure that nothing looked suspicious, and were able to make regular, rather large transfers into their account. That's why I am so afraid that the bank will reverse the temporary charge back that they issued when I made the claim. $30,000 is a lot of money, its almost everything I had. I don't want this person to go to prison, but what else can I do? They are supposed to be getting a large settlement from an accident they were in due to a drunk driver last year, and they keep telling me that they will pay me back every cent when that comes in, but that's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned. I'm very hurt. Why would they do this to me? I would have given them money if they needed it, I always have. Maybe not that much, but I just don't understand why its never enough for some people. S

orry to ramble on. Thanks again for your thoughts. :)

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Postby nismoZtuner » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:56 pm

Last night my debit card was used to reload some Starbucks cards- I don`t even shop at SB

CHECKCARD STARBUCKS CARD RE 800-782-7282 ON 02/23
CHECKCARD 02/24 STARBUCKS CARD RELOAD 800-782-7282 WA

I haven`t used my debit card in over 2 years btw...
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Postby JamesMS » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:53 am

First it sucks when this sort of thing happens. On you second post, when you said you filed a police report, good, that is one of the best things you can do when it happens. The person that you believe stole your card, how do you think he/she was able to do so?

If this "friend" did do it, then that's one ****ty friend. Hopefully the bank will get it all straightened out for you, that would be a lot of money to be out. Large settlement or not, they stole from you. You either need to be ok with it or press charges, you can't have it both ways.
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Postby amex007 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:35 am

I wouldnt call that person a friend. Used your own personal information to steal from you. No conscience.
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Postby amex007 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:36 am

But how did they get your ID to open a bank account under your name?

oops just read you said online bank account
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