How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

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wiivile
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How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby wiivile » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:18 am

I was approved for the Platinum on November 29, 2015 and received and activated the card on December 1. I'm not sure if I want to keep it a whole year, but if I decide that I don't, how does AMEX prorate the $450 annual fee if I decide to cancel it? Do they charge you for just the number of days you had the card open...?
    Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature: 11/2013, $15,000 CL
    Chase Freedom Visa: 11/2009, $4,700 CL
    U.S. Bank Cash+ Visa Signature: 11/2013, $11,200 CL


rockyrock
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby rockyrock » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:21 am

I'm not sure if it's days or months they use for the calculation but they they definitely prorate. When I PC'd from Platinum to PRG the formula was obviously different as the new card had a AF as well.

As I think about it, you may have to decide within 30 or 60 days of being charged the AF if you are closing the account. PC is different and they are more likely to work with you as they are retaining you as a customer.

If you are closing the account, explore all your options if they say no. Consider PC'ing to a Senior Green which has a much lower AF and may get you more of your Platinum AF back.

As always, YMMV.

Good luck!
American Express (2005): Premier Rewards Gold & Blue Cash Preferred
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Tubpbs
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby Tubpbs » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:06 pm

For my curiosity, what was the purpose of acquiring the card if within 5 days you're not sure you want it for even a year, let alone long term?

I am interested in the card, curious if something turned you off of the card or just you changed your mind or something.
Amex - BCP, Platinum, Business Gold
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wiivile
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby wiivile » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:28 am

Tubpbs wrote:For my curiosity, what was the purpose of acquiring the card if within 5 days you're not sure you want it for even a year, let alone long term?

I am interested in the card, curious if something turned you off of the card or just you changed your mind or something.



100,000 Membership Rewards signup bonus + $400 in gift cards benefit + $100 in Global Entry reimbursement. I never intended to keep the card long term, just not sure how long to keep it.
    Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature: 11/2013, $15,000 CL
    Chase Freedom Visa: 11/2009, $4,700 CL
    U.S. Bank Cash+ Visa Signature: 11/2013, $11,200 CL

Vermonster
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby Vermonster » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:44 am

wiivile wrote:100,000 Membership Rewards signup bonus + $400 in gift cards benefit + $100 in Global Entry reimbursement. I never intended to keep the card long term, just not sure how long to keep it.


I wouldn't expect too much in the way of an AF refund. If you get one, great. But refunding the AF only promotes the churning and bonus hunting. With that sort of signup bonus I can see Amex refusing to pro-rate the AF.
Chase Freedom $9k~~Chase Sapphire Preferred $6.5k~~Amex Blue Cash Preferred $12.4k~~Citi Double Cash $4.7k

Tubpbs
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby Tubpbs » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:22 am

Vermonster wrote:
wiivile wrote:100,000 Membership Rewards signup bonus + $400 in gift cards benefit + $100 in Global Entry reimbursement. I never intended to keep the card long term, just not sure how long to keep it.


I wouldn't expect too much in the way of an AF refund. If you get one, great. But refunding the AF only promotes the churning and bonus hunting. With that sort of signup bonus I can see Amex refusing to pro-rate the AF.


I wouldn't be surprised if they don't issue new cards either...
Amex - BCP, Platinum, Business Gold
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wiivile
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby wiivile » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:42 pm

It's not churning if it's just one card and all of the spend is "organic". Besides, I think they are required to refund the AF (prorated).
    Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature: 11/2013, $15,000 CL
    Chase Freedom Visa: 11/2009, $4,700 CL
    U.S. Bank Cash+ Visa Signature: 11/2013, $11,200 CL

Tubpbs
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby Tubpbs » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:50 pm

wiivile wrote:It's not churning if it's just one card and all of the spend is "organic". Besides, I think they are required to refund the AF (prorated).


What leads you to believe they are required to refund the AF? It doesn't matter if the spend is organic or not. They're not stupid. You're opening the card, getting a massive sign up bonus, using several of the cash related reimbursement benefits of the card and closing it immediately after it has served you as much as possible in as short a time as possible. They will certainly be aware of this and know exactly what you did. I don't know if they will care or give you an issue on a future approval or not, but they will know exactly what you did as soon as you do it whether you buy gift cards or regular items.

And, I do believe it is expressly what churning is. I don't see how the number of cards or anything else comes into play. It's certainly your decision to make and I have no problem with someone getting out ahead of Amex in any way, but it will likely have its reprecussions in the future at some point. But maybe not.
Amex - BCP, Platinum, Business Gold
BoA - BankAmericard Cash Rewards
Chase - Freedom, CSP, RC, Ink Plus
Citi - DC, Prestige
Discover - It

wiivile
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby wiivile » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:17 pm

Tubpbs wrote:
wiivile wrote:It's not churning if it's just one card and all of the spend is "organic". Besides, I think they are required to refund the AF (prorated).


What leads you to believe they are required to refund the AF? It doesn't matter if the spend is organic or not. They're not stupid. You're opening the card, getting a massive sign up bonus, using several of the cash related reimbursement benefits of the card and closing it immediately after it has served you as much as possible in as short a time as possible. They will certainly be aware of this and know exactly what you did. I don't know if they will care or give you an issue on a future approval or not, but they will know exactly what you did as soon as you do it whether you buy gift cards or regular items.

And, I do believe it is expressly what churning is. I don't see how the number of cards or anything else comes into play. It's certainly your decision to make and I have no problem with someone getting out ahead of Amex in any way, but it will likely have its reprecussions in the future at some point. But maybe not.


I have a friend who is a Sr. Marketing Manager at AMEX. What you're not understanding is that AMEX designs these offers for people who have never been an AMEX cardholder before and who have exceptional credit. They understand that people will not necessarily want to keep the Platinum, but they send these lucrative sign-up bonuses with the understanding that even if they take the signup bonus and run, they will ultimately keep an AMEX card in their wallet, whether it's a lower fee Green (charge) card or a no annual fee Everyday (credit) card. Their goal is to start a relationship with you, because AMEX, more than Visa and MasterCard, is about the "relationship". Trust me, AMEX knows what they're doing.

Which brings me back to my original post, since I do intend to get a Green or Everyday card once I get the Platinum's signup bonus, I wanted to know how AMEX will prorate the Platinum's annual fee.
    Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature: 11/2013, $15,000 CL
    Chase Freedom Visa: 11/2009, $4,700 CL
    U.S. Bank Cash+ Visa Signature: 11/2013, $11,200 CL

kdm31091
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Re: How does AMEX handle prorated annual fee refunds?

Postby kdm31091 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:45 pm

wiivile wrote:It's not churning if it's just one card and all of the spend is "organic". Besides, I think they are required to refund the AF (prorated).


Never heard of a requirement to refund the AF; you agreed to pay it when you signed up for the card.

The churning vs non-churning debate can go on forever but to me, if you get a card expressly for the bonus, knowing you won't keep it, you are basically churning that card. A pattern of this doesn't look good on manual review, nor do lenders really care to keep customers who do that sort of thing. It's why the churners are the ones whining the loudest about never getting retention offers, etc. I'm not categorizing you as one of those, but just saying that you have to remember the lenders don't see or understand your intent or your thoughts, merely what you did -- opened, got bonus, now want to close and get some AF back. In Amex's eyes, you're not a very useful customer, and they may be reluctant to do much for you in the future. So to me, it's about not burning bridges. We are slowly seeing churners being cracked down on across all issuers -- amex, chase, citi, even comenity has started closing accounts of people who got the cards not necessarily for bonuses but just for "util padding". Bottom line is lenders want you to get a card so that you use it. Not for a buffer for your utilization or for a bonus. But to actually USE. If you don't want to follow that logic, then it's fine, but there are consequences as noted above.



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