Member Since Date

American Express forum. Talk about AmEx credit cards like Blue, Gold, Platinum, Centurion, and more.
day440
Green Member
Green Member
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:47 am
Location: USA

Postby day440 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:29 am

This is disappointing news. I really hoping the backdating would help increase my FICO score. At least I will have another card to help with my credit limits. I will let you know if I see an impact on my score. How can I tell if it is from the member since date or just being approved for more credit or both?


CC Deville
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:07 pm
Location: Phoenix

Postby CC Deville » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:56 am

day440 wrote:This is disappointing news. I really hoping the backdating would help increase my FICO score. At least I will have another card to help with my credit limits. I will let you know if I see an impact on my score. How can I tell if it is from the member since date or just being approved for more credit or both?


It has not been 100% confirmed yet so there is still a chance that it will report as opened 4/1992 but we will eagerly await your report to us with how it reports to your bureaus.

As far as impact on credit score....the EX inquiry will shave a few points off. If backdated, it may have a marginal effect on your Average Age of Account (AAOA). If not backdated, you can expect a small decline in FICO score for having a new account.

To find your AAOA: write down all of your credit accounts, both closed and opened-credit card, LOC, mortgage and auto/personal/student loans; next to each account you will write down the total number of months that account has been established, for example a 4/1992 account is 276 months (23 years times 12). Once you have figured out how many months each account is, you add them up, divide that number by how many trade lines you have and then divide that number by 12 and you will have your AAOA. Account age is a large factor in FICO scoring so as you know, a backdated Amex can help your AAOA (although to be honest, it is not that huge of a bump which you may see once you figure your AAOA) and a new account can drop your score a little. Basically one new account here and there won't really hurt and one backdated account won't really help either. Your mileage may vary of course.

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 4192
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:14 pm

flan wrote: newer scoring model use better metrics than simple age of accounts.


What are the better, alternative metrics? The number of months with purchase or payment activity? The number of months since the first activity?

I suppose it could even make a little sense if FICO didn't want to give me "full credit" for time when I have a card sockdrawered with no activity at all.
Very useful: SchwabPlat, CSP, IHG, Costco (was AA Plat), Freedom, SPG, Prestige (retention)
Somewhat useful: Discover, ED (was EDP), BCE, Hyatt
SD with activity alerts, might close: Arrival

Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold, First Tech, BofA Travel PH, Aviator Red

flan
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:16 pm
Location: chicago

Postby flan » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:02 pm

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:What are the better, alternative metrics? The number of months with purchase or payment activity? The number of months since the first activity?

I suppose it could even make a little sense if FICO didn't want to give me "full credit" for time when I have a card sockdrawered with no activity at all.


One simple one is median account age, but something like what you suggest could work too. But remember, the point of the measure is that people who have longer credit histories have more predictable behavior (good or bad); current analytic data analysis says that the value of the past decreases rapidly as it becomes older. so capping acount age at the payment history (a max of 60 to 84 months) might not reduce the accuracy of scoring.

User avatar
CarefulBuilder14
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 4192
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:20 pm

flan wrote:One simple one is median account age, but something like what you suggest could work too. But remember, the point of the measure is that people who have longer credit histories have more predictable behavior (good or bad); current analytic data analysis says that the value of the past decreases rapidly as it becomes older. so capping acount age at the payment history (a max of 60 to 84 months) might not reduce the accuracy of scoring.


That does make sense. Even with a bunch of really old accounts (legitimate or backdated), the presence of several new ones on a report will spook some creditors. And I can see how the difference between 1 year and 5 years of history with an account would be more meaningful than the difference between 5 years and 10 years.
Very useful: SchwabPlat, CSP, IHG, Costco (was AA Plat), Freedom, SPG, Prestige (retention)
Somewhat useful: Discover, ED (was EDP), BCE, Hyatt
SD with activity alerts, might close: Arrival

Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold, First Tech, BofA Travel PH, Aviator Red

User avatar
otter
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Postby otter » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:19 am

Personally, I think too much has been said about Amex backdating and how it makes reports less "accurate". I've been backdated twice (once when I had my two cards initially backdated and recently when I got the Delta Gold... which started reporting days before Amex stopped backdating (assuming the stories on FICO are true). My FICO score went up 20 points the first time, and maybe another 10 points last month. The worst thing that creditors do when it comes to CR accuracy is "paid for deletions". That is the real tragedy when it comes to CR accuracy.

If I'm a credit underwriter who is manually looking at someone's credit report, I'm not really going to dwell too long on that Amex account which says it was opened in 1995 but only reports 3 months history. Most underwriters know the reputation of other lenders and if I see an Amex, a card issuer with fairly strict underwriting, a tendency to neither forgive nor forget, and one of the lowest loan default rates in the industry, I'm probably going to look at the account as generally favorable.. An Amex card backdated or not is a plus on someone's report.

But when you have a ton of people like you see in the credit rebuilding section of fico who all use form letters to get legitimate derogatory info removed; that's far worse, because if I'm an underwriter that's information I need to know. There's a reason derogatory information stays on for seven years and that's because past performance tends to repeat itself, but someone seven years later is hopefully more mature. If Amex is indeed being somehow forced to "report accurately", then the same government agency needs to put their foot down and crack down on PFD.
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450

Nick21
Green Member
Green Member
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:02 am
Location: World

Postby Nick21 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:10 am

otter wrote:Personally, I think too much has been said about Amex backdating and how it makes reports less "accurate". I've been backdated twice (once when I had my two cards initially backdated and recently when I got the Delta Gold... which started reporting days before Amex stopped backdating (assuming the stories on FICO are true). My FICO score went up 20 points the first time, and maybe another 10 points last month. The worst thing that creditors do when it comes to CR accuracy is "paid for deletions". That is the real tragedy when it comes to CR accuracy.

If I'm a credit underwriter who is manually looking at someone's credit report, I'm not really going to dwell too long on that Amex account which says it was opened in 1995 but only reports 3 months history. Most underwriters know the reputation of other lenders and if I see an Amex, a card issuer with fairly strict underwriting, a tendency to neither forgive nor forget, and one of the lowest loan default rates in the industry, I'm probably going to look at the account as generally favorable.. An Amex card backdated or not is a plus on someone's report.

But when you have a ton of people like you see in the credit rebuilding section of fico who all use form letters to get legitimate derogatory info removed; that's far worse, because if I'm an underwriter that's information I need to know. There's a reason derogatory information stays on for seven years and that's because past performance tends to repeat itself, but someone seven years later is hopefully more mature. If Amex is indeed being somehow forced to "report accurately", then the same government agency needs to put their foot down and crack down on PFD.


Those 20 to 30 points can mean the difference between a decline or approval, it can also change your scoring bracket. Not to mention mislead systemic evaluation processes into believing your 30 day old account is a 15 year old account. With that said, I don't think it's a big deal either way so can't say I care. And you make an excellent point about PFD but no one is required to report anything, so they are within right to delete. The law only requires that the information being reported is accurate, when and if they do report.

User avatar
otter
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Postby otter » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:12 am

Nick21 wrote:Those 20 to 30 points can mean the difference between a decline or approval, it can also change your scoring bracket. Not to mention mislead systemic evaluation processes into believing your 30 day old account is a 15 year old account. With that said, I don't think it's a big deal either way so can't say I care. And you make an excellent point about PFD but no one is required to report anything, so they are within right to delete. The law only requires that the information being reported is accurate, when and if they do report.


It's one thing to never report an account which is derogatory. It's another thing to report it and then remove it in exchange for payment.
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450

flan
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:16 pm
Location: chicago

Postby flan » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:51 am

Nick21 wrote:Those 20 to 30 points can mean the difference between a decline or approval, it can also change your scoring bracket. Not to mention mislead systemic evaluation processes into believing your 30 day old account is a 15 year old account. With that said, I don't think it's a big deal either way so can't say I care. And you make an excellent point about PFD but no one is required to report anything, so they are within right to delete. The law only requires that the information being reported is accurate, when and if they do report.


Right, but deleting it requires that you give a reason. All of the permissible reasons are variations of "we made a mistake" (wrong person, wrong amount, bookkeeping error, etc). There is not one for "we got paid, so who cares?". PFD is against the rules at the CRAs, but it's very hard to enforce, because collection agencies make so many mistakes and have legitimate reasons to delete accounts. (Also, the other thing that many CAs do, even the ones that don't do PFD, is not verify disputes filed against paid accounts, which has the same effect.)

User avatar
otter
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Postby otter » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:30 pm

I think the non-verification of disputes is how most derog's go away. In the past 10 years, I've only had one negative thing on my credit report. Long story short... I checked out a book from the Virginia Beach Public library, the binding was damaged when I checked it out and I was told I had to pay for the damaged book after I returned it. I refused on principle, and it ended up on my TU report as a collection six months later. I disputed it online on the TU website and it was gone within five minutes which was strange because usually they give the collector a chance to verify.
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450



Return to “American Express”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests