Finally backdated!

American Express forum. Talk about AmEx credit cards like Blue, Gold, Platinum, Centurion, and more.
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CarefulBuilder14
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Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:28 pm

I can see how backdating - especially for previously blacklisted customers - makes Amex more attractive to consumers looking to improve their FICO score when climbing out of a financial mess. It does a lot to make 'returned prodigals' loyal to Amex when they have their money in order later in life. I can see how it is a general lifetime benefit for all customers – if I fall on hard times later in life I might use it, too. But I still think it tarnishes the elite image they try to have.

If someone shows me his Amex card and it says he has been a member since 1980, I have to question whether he has actually had good enough credit to have an Amex card open for 34 years, or whether he went through multiple bankruptcies and just got the card six months ago. If Amex wants a reputation for being selective, I shouldn't have to question that. I should know, for a fact, that there's no way to 'fake' the age of an account, so someone with a 34-year old Amex card must have a spectacular credit history.

I only go back 3 months with Amex, but if I had gotten my first Amex in 1980 and kept one open (and given Amex a whole lot in annual membership and swipe fees along the way!) I would be pretty annoyed that they kept letting the former deadbeat ‘prodigal sons’ back in, treating them as equals. I’m certainly not against Amex welcoming previously blacklisted customers back, I’m against this attitude that Amex is a warm and caring family. Does Amex blacklist a customer out of love or because they are unprofitable?

It’s not genuine forgiveness and unconditional love from Amex – it’s a financial decision that they will probably make money from you in the future, despite the past. High swipe and annual fees help a lot in that regard.

Imagine going into an AA-type meeting and saying you stopped drinking for a month or two in 1980, then drank from 1981 to June 2014. They would say you’ve been sober for 2 months, not 34 years. Or a couple could marry in 1980, divorce in 1982 and not interact for decades. If they remarry in 2013, it can be a great thing! But they haven’t been married for 34 years.

For people who actually have been sober or married 34 years, it would sound ridiculous.

Again, I absolutely understand the appeal for consumers and I like using the cards - but Amex also wants to remain an elite and luxury brand - and I think that status can't exist alongside 'questionable backdating'.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when


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onion
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Postby onion » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:01 pm

Yes, I see where you're coming from. No, I don't necessarily agree with everything. It does seem a bit like you're upset that someone who was with AmEx about as long as you is reaping the benefits of backdating but you can't because you never had an account before now.
FICO TU - 728 - 8/14
FICO EX - 716 - 7/14
FICO EQ - 740 - 7/14

Bank of America Cash Rewards - $2,400
Best Buy - $3,000
American Express Blue Cash Everyday - $8,000
American Express Everyday - $10,000
Discover It Chrome - $500 (AU on fiancée's card, helping her build credit)
American Express Platinum - NPSL
Barclaycard Arrival+ - $3,000
Capital One Yamacard - $11,000

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CarefulBuilder14
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Posts: 3757
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: United States

Postby CarefulBuilder14 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:45 pm

onion wrote:Yes, I see where you're coming from. No, I don't necessarily agree with everything. It does seem a bit like you're upset that someone who was with AmEx about as long as you is reaping the benefits of backdating but you can't because you never had an account before now.


When I am ready to buy a house eventually, I expect my history and down payment will be strong enough to get a good interest rate on a mortgage. My credit is satisfactory for employment purposes. Other than that, I don't really need a spectacular credit score, so I'm not upset about a limited ability to backdate. I should have switched from debit to credit cards earlier, but that is a different matter.

It's more that I'm having trouble understanding how Amex keeps the reputation for status and selectivity when a 'prodigal son' can so easily regain that 'rarefied' status of having several '23-year old' cards. Backdating a card and glossing over a blacklisted period is legally acceptable b*llsh*tting, but it's still b*llsh*tting. At least in my mind, there can be no status in something that can be achieved just as easily through b*llsh*t as through success, discipline, and organization.
Love: IHG, Platinum, Sallie Mae, AA Plat, CSP
Like: Discover, ED, BCE, Hyatt, Arrival, Freedom
Might drop: BrooksBros, Prestige (Costco PC?)
Might add: Proper business card, CSR, Ritz, Delta Gold
Letting new accounts cool off since May
Really not sure what I'll add next or when

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onion
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Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Postby onion » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:56 pm

Even with backdating, any credit analyst worth his salt will be able to tell an account was backdated and will take it into consideration. It's not like people get huge benefits from backdating, it's just a little extra.
FICO TU - 728 - 8/14

FICO EX - 716 - 7/14

FICO EQ - 740 - 7/14



Bank of America Cash Rewards - $2,400

Best Buy - $3,000

American Express Blue Cash Everyday - $8,000

American Express Everyday - $10,000

Discover It Chrome - $500 (AU on fiancée's card, helping her build credit)

American Express Platinum - NPSL

Barclaycard Arrival+ - $3,000

Capital One Yamacard - $11,000

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otter
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Postby otter » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:22 pm

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:If someone shows me his Amex card and it says he has been a member since 1980, I have to question whether he has actually had good enough credit to have an Amex card open for 34 years, or whether he went through multiple bankruptcies and just got the card six months ago. If Amex wants a reputation for being selective, I shouldn't have to question that. I should know, for a fact, that there's no way to 'fake' the age of an account, so someone with a 34-year old Amex card must have a spectacular credit history.



Why should it matter to you if they had multiple bankruptcies? What should matter is the here and now and whether they have truly changed.

If you met a girl (or boy or whatever might be applicable in your case) and fell in love because they were perfect and then you found out they were once a slvt/a morally bad person/made questionable life decisions... would you just break up with them even though they were now a changed person? You've brought up personal responsibility a few times, well personal responsibility is not about "I've always been perfect" it's about fixing your shortcomings.
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450

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otter
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Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Postby otter » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:29 pm

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:When I am ready to buy a house eventually, I expect my history and down payment will be strong enough to get a good interest rate on a mortgage. My credit is satisfactory for employment purposes. Other than that, I don't really need a spectacular credit score, so I'm not upset about a limited ability to backdate. I should have switched from debit to credit cards earlier, but that is a different matter.

It's more that I'm having trouble understanding how Amex keeps the reputation for status and selectivity when a 'prodigal son' can so easily regain that 'rarefied' status of having several '23-year old' cards. Backdating a card and glossing over a blacklisted period is legally acceptable b*llsh*tting, but it's still b*llsh*tting. At least in my mind, there can be no status in something that can be achieved just as easily through b*llsh*t as through success, discipline, and organization.


Since you've taken to my "prodigal son" analogy so well, you should refer back to the parable where the other son is bitter about the prodigal son. You seem to be that other son... you never left home- why should I get preferential treatment? Can't you just be happy for other people who were doing poorly and are now doing well? There are lots of people who were doing poorly at the same time I was doing poorly and are still doing poorly and will always do poorly because, as you said earlier, it's all about personal responsibility. But I'm not going to apologize for receiving backdating and I don't know why it bothers you so much...

If you were to post tomorrow that you checked your credit reports and your 1/2 year old Chase Freedom account was erroneously showing as being opened in 1952, I would be happy for you because it doesn't affect me in the least bit. I would even tell you it would be dumb to contact Chase or the "Big Three" and correct it. I don't even think you have a moral obligation to fix it. One of the reasons we are (supposedly) on this forum and others like it is so that we can help each other out and rejoice in other people's triumphs.

And relax about the Amex rep for "status and selectivity". It's been going downhill for around 10 years for reasons having nothing to do with backdating. There's a guy who posts here named "membersince77" (not related to 99) who laments in his signature file that he's had a gold card since back "when it meant something." Amex jumped the shark when they let others issue cards on their own network. Eventually, Amex (the card issuer) will spin off Amex (the Network) and Amex (card issuer) will become just another issuer. By then, their charge cards will be transitioned into true revolving credit cards and subprime issuers like First Premier and Credit One will be issuing their own "Amex" cards.
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450

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otter
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Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Postby otter » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:42 pm

onion wrote:Even with backdating, any credit analyst worth his salt will be able to tell an account was backdated and will take it into consideration. It's not like people get huge benefits from backdating, it's just a little extra.


That's a good point... I don't think any credit analyst is going to be fooled by my "23 year old" Amex BCE with a $1000 limit. Even Crap One isn't that slow in giving CLI's.
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450

DONx3
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Location: CO

Postby DONx3 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:42 pm

CarefulBuilder14 wrote:
@DONx3 — If Marxism applies here (and I'm not quite sure it does), wouldn't Amex be the Marxist state - treating everyone equally, regardless of merit? If you want to assign an ideology to me, it should be a more capitalist-libertarian one. My perspective is that people should be held responsible for their own mistakes. If you have some different interpretation of how political theory applies here, please explain it.


My bad then Fascist. Let's go by gov't power vs individual freedom, not the political spectrum.

He might not been a continuous amex client but he still applied back in 91 and nonetheless amex honors that. If you were in his shoes would you really tell amex "by the way, I won't be backdating because it's against my beliefs and I don't want to be like everyone else." It might be breaking whatever rules you have personally but it doesn't break the law. Besides amex are the only ones who do that so for you naziprorealopeningdate guys there you go.

I agree with you that everybody should be responsible for their mistakes, especially careless mistakes. Nonetheless, I don't know you and therefore discuss.
Amex Blue Cash Everyday 07/01
Amex Starwood Preferred Guest 03/16, BD 01
BOA Cash Rewards Visa Sig 06/07
Chase Freedom Visa Sig 12/13
Chase Ink Plus Visa Sig 05/16
Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Sig 07/13
Discover It 01/14
IHG Rewards Club World MC 12/14
Southwest Rapid Rewards Plus Visa Sig 08/16

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onion
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Postby onion » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:12 pm

otter wrote:And relax about the Amex rep for "status and selectivity". It's been going downhill for around 10 years for reasons having nothing to do with backdating. There's a guy who posts here named "membersince77" (not related to 99) who laments in his signature file that he's had a gold card since back "when it meant something." Amex jumped the shark when they let others issue cards on their own network. Eventually, Amex (the card issuer) will spin off Amex (the Network) and Amex (card issuer) will become just another issuer. By then, their charge cards will be transitioned into true revolving credit cards and subprime issuers like First Premier and Credit One will be issuing their own "Amex" cards.


Man, I really wish AmEx would be the only one to issue cards on their network. It really would have kept a lot of the "wow" factor when someone whips out an AmEx card, even if its just a Green. For example, Wells Fargo and their crappy Propel cards. They're basically a subprime lender and I'd rather sign up for a Cap One Quicksilver than the Propel card, yet the Propel is on the AmEx network. Sure, its rare, but only most people have the sense to not sign up for a card that'll only give you decent rewards for 6 months and then give you a terrible 1%.
FICO TU - 728 - 8/14

FICO EX - 716 - 7/14

FICO EQ - 740 - 7/14



Bank of America Cash Rewards - $2,400

Best Buy - $3,000

American Express Blue Cash Everyday - $8,000

American Express Everyday - $10,000

Discover It Chrome - $500 (AU on fiancée's card, helping her build credit)

American Express Platinum - NPSL

Barclaycard Arrival+ - $3,000

Capital One Yamacard - $11,000

User avatar
otter
Centurion Member
Centurion Member
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Postby otter » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:15 pm

onion wrote:Man, I really wish AmEx would be the only one to issue cards on their network. It really would have kept a lot of the "wow" factor when someone whips out an AmEx card, even if its just a Green. For example, Wells Fargo and their crappy Propel cards. They're basically a subprime lender and I'd rather sign up for a Cap One Quicksilver than the Propel card, yet the Propel is on the AmEx network. Sure, its rare, but only most people have the sense to not sign up for a card that'll only give you decent rewards for 6 months and then give you a terrible 1%.


Yeah, know what you mean... I have the propel card, but mostly because I have a relationship with them (so I get a bonus). It also helps me avoid checking account fees (if I use it three times a month) since I refuse to put any real amount of money in WF.
In my Wallet:
  • Amex PRG NPSL[3-14, bd 91]
  • Sallie Mae MC $8000[1-14]
  • Chase Freedom $4700[1-14]
  • Discover It $2750[8-13]
  • BoA UCF Alumni Cash Rewards $5000 [3-15]
Sometimes in my Wallet:
  • GM BuyPower WEMC $5000[9-14]
  • Wells Fargo Propel 365 Amex $7000[4-14]
  • Barclaycard Arrival WEMC $7000[3-14]
  • BoA Better Balance $3000[2-15]
In my sockdrawer: Amex BCE $1000[10-13, bd 91], OCCU Duck $10000 [11-13], The Sportsman's Guide Visa $8000[8-14], Chase Slate $4000 [9-14]Delta Gold Amex $2000 [2-15 bd 91], Diners Club MC $20000 [10-14] Commerce Bank Visa $2000 [3-15] Citi Double Cash $1000 [3-15]
Total CL: $90450



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